Biden's America

[Stumpy1]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

This is not true. Our refineries are capable of refining a variety of crude oils. 

 

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=41033

 

 

Did you not read the last part of my sentence?  I mean,  I could run straight ethanol in my pickup and still drive but it won’t run properly.  

[BigRedBuster]

45 minutes ago, Stumpy1 said:

It was stopped way before Biden and you know that.  Biden just killed it completely which could/will hurt us in the future.

 

If the pipeline was allowed to be built starting in 2010 or so,  it would be completed today and would transport roughly 900,000 barrels a day.  People need to realize that there is already a Keystone pipeline that runs from Canada down to Steele City, NE were it splits and goes all the way to the Gulf and to refineries in Illinois.  The XL would have tied into the existing pipeline in Steele City to add increased volume for the refineries in Illinois and the Gulf.  Another thing people need to know is that our own oil companies along with many others from different countries buy the oil from Canada before it is pumped. Once the oil is refined,  other companies buy the refined products and have it transported via pipelines, ships, trucks or railways.   
 

I said it in another post and I will say it here.  The refineries in the US are geared to refine heavy crude.  The oil that we produce is a light to medium crude.  We need the heavy crude from Canada and other countries to blend with US oil to make our refineries run properly.  

And, how much of that oil is being transported by rail now?

 

And, the world uses 97,000,000 barrels of oil per day.  So, this is less than 1% even if zero of those 900,000 were being transported other ways currently.  

 

Sorry, that's not going to make a significant difference in the oil price problems.

[knapplc]

Just now, Stumpy1 said:

Did you not read the last part of my sentence?  I mean,  I could run straight ethanol in my pickup and still drive but it won’t run properly.  

 

I did. And the stuff I posted actually bolsters your comment about needing to import heavier crude. What I'm saying is we can refine a broad range of oil, not just the heavier stuff like you said. 

 

We have the capacity to produce all the oil we need. Between heavier crudes from California & the Gulf and lighter stuff from the Dakotas, we can blend whatever we need. 

 

The issue is that production crashed due to the pandemic. We lost capacity because at every step in the supply chain we had breaks. Tools, pipes, machinery - it wasn't being produced. On top of that, we lost a ton of the workforce when everything shut down. It was broken two years ago before any of today's pump prices happened.

 

The contention you're making, that several of us are pushing back on, is that Keystone XL would have fixed this. It wouldn't have significantly affected today's pump prices for several of the reasons I've already laid out in previous posts. Even if Biden hadn't ultimately killed the project, it wouldn't be fully operational yet because as of last year it was only 10% built. 

 

Lots of factors are going into the prices we see at the pump - the largest of which is the invasion of Ukraine - but Keystone XL wouldn't have fixed this. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I guess this is a bad time to talk about climate change. 

[knapplc]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I guess this is a bad time to talk about climate change. 

 

I hear the facetiousness in this comment. It's actually a perfect time to talk about climate change, and divorcing ourselves from fossil fuels. 

 

Renewable energy is the future. We should make that happen sooner rather than later. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

I hear the facetiousness in this comment. It's actually a perfect time to talk about climate change, and divorcing ourselves from fossil fuels. 

 

Renewable energy is the future. We should make that happen sooner rather than later. 

 

Agree. If we were sane and unselfish, it would be the cause that would unite humanity.

 

As if avoiding catastrophe wasn't enough, there's even a financial upside.

 

And yet that conversation got pushed even lower on our priorities as we have misplaced conversations loaded with misinformation about fossil fuels. 

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Agree. If we were sane and unselfish, it would be the cause that would unite humanity.

 

As if avoiding catastrophe wasn't enough, there's even a financial upside.

 

And yet that conversation got pushed even lower on our priorities as we have misplaced conversations loaded with misinformation about fossil fuels. 

I have been saying for a years that even if you don't believe in climate change, it's smart to develop other forms of energy.  We are sitting at less than 50 years of oil supply in the world.  We also end up in crappy situations with other countries like the middle east and Russia because of our dependence on oil.  

 

Why WOULDN'T we want to develop other energy sources to reduce that dependence?

[Guy Chamberlin]

10 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have been saying for a years that even if you don't believe in climate change, it's smart to develop other forms of energy.  We are sitting at less than 50 years of oil supply in the world.  We also end up in crappy situations with other countries like the middle east and Russia because of our dependence on oil.  

 

Why WOULDN'T we want to develop other energy sources to reduce that dependence?

 

You probably should have a conversation with the lobbyists from the incredibly wealthy petroleum corporations. 

 

I think some forms of petroleum usage will be around for another century or two. It's pretty amazing stuff in a lot of ways.

 

But you just can't keep pumping carbon into the atmosphere like we've done in the industrial revolution. The stats are clear. 

 

Can you imagine what a well-equipped alternative energy incubator could do with just the $500 million spent on petroleum lobbyists each year? 

 

Of course Big Oil keeps putting its toe into alternative energy, recognizing the future, but they're naturally averse to cutting off their legs. 

[Born N Bled Red]

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

 

I did. And the stuff I posted actually bolsters your comment about needing to import heavier crude. What I'm saying is we can refine a broad range of oil, not just the heavier stuff like you said. 

 

We have the capacity to produce all the oil we need. Between heavier crudes from California & the Gulf and lighter stuff from the Dakotas, we can blend whatever we need. 

 

The issue is that production crashed due to the pandemic. We lost capacity because at every step in the supply chain we had breaks. Tools, pipes, machinery - it wasn't being produced. On top of that, we lost a ton of the workforce when everything shut down. It was broken two years ago before any of today's pump prices happened.

 

The contention you're making, that several of us are pushing back on, is that Keystone XL would have fixed this. It wouldn't have significantly affected today's pump prices for several of the reasons I've already laid out in previous posts. Even if Biden hadn't ultimately killed the project, it wouldn't be fully operational yet because as of last year it was only 10% built. 

 

Lots of factors are going into the prices we see at the pump - the largest of which is the invasion of Ukraine - but Keystone XL wouldn't have fixed this. 

 

Please quit repeating that "Biden killed the project." It's not true and its reinforcing their talking point. The pipeline was killed by the Supreme Court during Trump's presidency. 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

Please quit repeating that "Biden killed the project." It's not true and its reinforcing their talking point. The pipeline was killed by the Supreme Court during Trump's presidency. 

 

Except it wasn't entirely dead, leading to Biden revoking the project's final chance. Biden played a role, and there's no reason not to talk about that.

[Born N Bled Red]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Except it wasn't entirely dead, leading to Biden revoking the project's final chance. Biden played a role, and there's no reason not to talk about that.

 

He cancelled a permit that was moot because they could not get other necessary permits due to the Supreme Court ruling. 

 

That is no different than a judge throwing out a court case because both parties settled out of court. What the judge did was administrative in nature, to not leave open cases on the docket. The judge had no role in the outcome of the case. 

 

[funhusker]

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have been saying for a years that even if you don't believe in climate change, it's smart to develop other forms of energy.  We are sitting at less than 50 years of oil supply in the world.  We also end up in crappy situations with other countries like the middle east and Russia because of our dependence on oil.  

 

Why WOULDN'T we want to develop other energy sources to reduce that dependence?

According to my brother, we will never run out of oil because "fish are still dying and falling to the bottom of the ocean..."  (yes, this was a real comment)

 

His logic is fossils are still being created therefore fossil fuels are limitless...

 

Bet you'll never guess what type of media he listens to.

 

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, funhusker said:

According to my brother, we will never run out of oil because "fish are still dying and falling to the bottom of the ocean..."  (yes, this was a real comment)

 

His logic is fossils are still being created therefore fossil fuels are limitless...

 

Bet you'll never guess what type of media he listens to.

 

Well, that's a new one for me.  Oil is actually a renewable energy source.  

Yep...no chance we are using it faster than fish can decay and produce more.

[funhusker]

13 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well, that's a new one for me.  Oil is actually a renewable energy source.  

Yep...no chance we are using it faster than fish can decay and produce more.

It was at Christmas a couple years ago.  My mom saw the look on my face and abruptly yelled for me to come help her with something in the kitchen.  I was more than happy to walk away from that "discussion".

[ZRod]

12 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Overall Inflation is the most hurtful ‘tax’ on low and middle income families there is.   A subset of that inflation, increased energy costs, is probably 1B 

Not what I'm talking about. If you normalize the price of gas for inflation you'll find that the true price of gas has actually been slowly decreasing for 2 decades. People want to complain about the good old days of 1 or 2 bucks a gallon; and ignore that they were paid less then too, could buy a soda for less than a dollar, and you could still buy a good car for $20k.