Trump's Post Election Fallout: Legal & Obstruction actions

[TGHusker]

Hopefully this will be a short lived thread.  But thought I'd separate this as its own topic. 

 

Trump, dislusional, angry, and in a state of denial, is fighting on.  Many of his supporters are fighting with him.  Many are not.  Since the WH is a place of dysfunction under Trump, no one seems to be able to persuade tRump to move on and conceed and let the nation heal.  It is all about him. 

 

This article sums up some of the background behind Trump mood and that of his supporters.

 

https://www.axios.com/trump-legal-battle-republicans-senate-gop-59e38b9d-de91-4054-985d-580c13a71e75.html

 

Quote

 

GOP leaders and confidants of President Trump tell Axios his legal fight to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s victory — which they admit is likely doomed — could last a month or more, possibly pushing the 2020 political wars toward Christmastime.

Why it matters: Most top Republicans have followed Trump’s orders not to accept the Biden victory, and to allow all legal options to be exhausted. That could mean weeks of drama — and, more importantly, distractions from the vital work of transitioning government for a change of power.

Axios is told an internal effort is underway to dissuade Trump from pursuing a blitz (with Rudy Giuliani as the tip of the spear) that could mean three to six weeks of legal challenges, discovery and rulings — at the same time that Biden is talking daily about a message of healing.

• Some top sources tell Axios that Trump has no plan to call for national unity. "No chance," says a person who talks often to the president.
• A senior Republican who talks often to Trump said the president is "angry ... volatile ... disconsolate."

The backdrop: Alayna Treene scooped in Axios Sneak Peek last evening that most people close to Trump know the race is over, although no one wants to tell him.

• Trump plans to hold rallies focused on the litigation, and brandish obituaries of people who were recorded as voting but are dead, Trump advisers told her.

The senior Republican said there's a real split in the extended inner circle between people pushing Trump to keep fighting, and those who are "trying to gently nudge the president toward giving in."

• The second camp, which includes the senior Republican, argues: "You have a real future as a kingmaker. Don't screw it up by going out in a bad way, leaving the brand diminished and radioactive."

The bottom line: Republican operatives told Axios they worry that Trump's scorched-earth fight will divert money from the real remaining prize for the GOP — the twin Georgia runoffs on Jan. 5 that'll determine control of the Senate.

• A top Republican said of the legal fight: "It is a distraction. And a gigantic waste of time."
• The person who talks often to the president said: "Republicans ... are very concerned about the Senate. Trump is not."
• A former top Trump West Wing official said: "Surprise — it's all about him."

 

•  

[TGHusker]

 

Trump's legal options are thin to none.   Here are a few links   in review

 

The time article details why the court action will fail:

https://time.com/5908881/president-trump-cant-sue-his-way-to-a-second-term-why-he-is-trying-anyway/

 

The real motive behind the court action maybe :
 

Quote

 

So why pursue a legal strategy that seems so clearly destined to fail? For Trump, some observers say, the goal may not be to win the election so much as to cast a pall of uncertainty over the results, thereby encouraging the perception, however unfounded, that he is the victim of fraud and remains the rightful leader of his fervent base. “This is all looking increasingly like disinformation through litigation, rather than plausible legal claims,” says Joshua Geltzer, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law.

If that is Trump’s strategy, it could prove costly for a historically polarized country. It won’t get him the votes he needs for a second term, but it will ensure the divisions he exacerbated will be harder to undo when he inevitably leaves office.

 

 

 

There is the throw it at the wall method and see what sticks

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/why-is-trump-refusing-to-concede-and-what-are-his-legal-options-20201108-p56cka.html

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/11/07/heres-why-trump-ongoing-lawsuits-wont-affect-joe-biden-victory-presidential-election/?sh=109ed1b1ca9b

 

 

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/politics/elections/stetson-constitutional-expert-lays-out-presidents-legal-options/67-d2333b3e-395b-4379-ab13-f0087b1bacb3

 

 

[Moiraine]

The only real concern left is that some of the GOP state governments might decide "well these voter fraud accusations haven't been properly addressed so we're going to put forward the GOP electors too and send both."

It's still unlikely but I'm not gonna feel comfortable until Biden's inauguration.

[TGHusker]

5 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

It's still unlikely but I'm not gonna feel comfortable until Biden's inauguration.

agree

 

2 nuclear options for trump to try to steal the election -

1. enough GOP legislatures that appoint GOP electors

2. tie everything up in the courts so that states cannot certify the results - thus it ends up in the House of Representatives where

each state has 1 vote. The GOP controls 26 of the 50 state delegations. 

[knapplc]

There would be a general shut-down of the country if trump tried to force electors to be faithless. 

 

Simply would not stand. I have zero concerns over that gambit. 

 

[Moiraine]

Just now, TGHusker said:

agree

 

2 nuclear options for trump to try to steal the election -

1. enough GOP legislatures that appoint GOP electors

2. tie everything up in the courts so that states cannot certify the results - thus it ends up in the House of Representatives where

each state has 1 vote. The GOP controls 26 of the 50 state delegations. 

 

 

If it's only 26 out of 50... I'd have hope 1 would flip to stop what would be the end of democracy in this country.

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

There would be a general shut-down of the country if trump tried to force electors to be faithless. 

 

Simply would not stand. I have zero concerns over that gambit. 

 

 

 

You are probably right. That said there have been mixed signals about it out of Pennsylvania and North Carolina (but NC doesn't matter if Trump wins it) but nothing out of MN, WI, MI, AZ, or GA. Although in GA they probably expected Trump to win so hearing nothing doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[RedDenver]

Just now, Moiraine said:

The only real concern left is that some of the GOP state governments might decide "well these voter fraud accusations haven't been properly addressed so we're going to put forward the GOP electors too and send both."

It's still unlikely but I'm not gonna feel comfortable until Biden's inauguration.

I'm pretty sure the states have to declare the method of selecting electors BEFORE the election, so I don't hink this is possible.

 

[knapplc]

I mean...  

 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

[RedDenver]

10 minutes ago, knapplc said:

There would be a general shut-down of the country if trump tried to force electors to be faithless. 

 

Simply would not stand. I have zero concerns over that gambit. 

The electors are selected by the party that won in that state, so it'd be partisan Dem electors - they aren't going to be faithless against their own candidate.

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm pretty sure the states have to declare the method of selecting electors BEFORE the election, so I don't hink this is possible.

 

 

I read an article about PA on how they could do it. I think they can decide to just send both if they argue things are in legal limbo, or something like that. Hopefully we don't end up needing to find any of this out.

 

 

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

The electors are selected by the party that won in that state, so it'd be partisan Dem electors - they aren't going to be faithless against their own candidate.

 

 

A state can send 2 sets of electors. It's happened before. It can happen if they decide the winner of the election is unknown. We all know this would be bulls#!t but I think that's how it would work.

[knapplc]

Speaking of the legal limbo, trump's teams continues to fall when they try to get past the bar...

 

 

 

 

[TGHusker]

12 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

If it's only 26 out of 50... I'd have hope 1 would flip to stop what would be the end of democracy in this country.

I agree. 

 

 

[Moiraine]

Here's an article on the unlikely put possible hypothetical of a state sending GOP electors and DNC electors.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-dueling-electors-explain-idUSKBN2712M7

 

Quote

What are dueling electors?

 

States with close contests between Republican President Donald Trump and his Democratic rival Joe Biden could produce competing slates of electors, one certified by the governor and the other by the legislature.

The risk of this happening is heightened in the battleground states of Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, which have Democratic governors and Republican-controlled legislatures.

 

 

Then there is Arizona and Georgia which have GOP legislatures, not sure on AZ governor but Georgia's is GOP. There are some crazy a$$ state senators out there. If there are enough of them in a state they could say they think it's up for congress to decide.


It's stupid that things are still set up this way. There is no reason to have electors. The final official vote counts should determine if the president won the election.

[TGHusker]

Theater is right.   But the theater is full of trump nutjob followers and trump wants to remain their commander by casting doubt on the election.  As noted by the article I posted as an edit above.     This action may be a prelude to his running again in 2024, as the next Grover Cleveland.  Throw doubt, claim he is the rightful president - which he said he previously should have gotten more years because of the Russian investigation. - run again to reclaim his rightful position.  A set up for his Messiah complex and Cult.  

29 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

The time article details why the court action will fail:

https://time.com/5908881/president-trump-cant-sue-his-way-to-a-second-term-why-he-is-trying-anyway/

 

The real motive behind the court action maybe :
 

Quote

 

So why pursue a legal strategy that seems so clearly destined to fail? For Trump, some observers say, the goal may not be to win the election so much as to cast a pall of uncertainty over the results, thereby encouraging the perception, however unfounded, that he is the victim of fraud and remains the rightful leader of his fervent base. “This is all looking increasingly like disinformation through litigation, rather than plausible legal claims,” says Joshua Geltzer, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law.

If that is Trump’s strategy, it could prove costly for a historically polarized country. It won’t get him the votes he needs for a second term, but it will ensure the divisions he exacerbated will be harder to undo when he inevitably leaves office.