End of season in jeopardy?

[knapplc]

6 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I just copied and pasted from the link you posted...lol.      

 

You didn't read what you copied, or you misread what you put in bold, then.

[Hilltop]

Just now, Archy1221 said:

If we are going to keep saying follow the science (which we should), then everyone should acknowledge that to date, there are no scientific studies showing that schools are super spreading centers.  

I am in a rural area not far from Lincoln.  Out community cases are high but our school confirmed positives have remained low.  Our school is a k-12 with about 500 kids.  To date, 2 students and one staff member have had confirmed positive tests (that we have been notified about).  Our local health department in each instance considered it a low probability of spread from those 3.  

[Hilltop]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

You didn't read what you copied, or you misread what you put in bold, then.

Why tell me I'm making stuff up if it fits your opinion?  Could it be that you just want to argue without considering what someone is actually saying?

 

 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

Why tell me I'm making stuff up if it fits your opinion?  Could it be that you just want to argue without considering what someone is actually saying?

 

 

 

What are you talking about? It's not ***my opinion*** it's from the CDC. And when you quoted from the very page I linked, you misunderstood what you were quoting. 

 

 

 

[Hilltop]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

What are you talking about? It's not ***my opinion*** it's from the CDC. And when you quoted from the very page I linked, you misunderstood what you were quoting. 

 

 

 

Here is your quote - 

"Per the CDC, this is wrong. Of the 299,000 extra deaths, 2/3 are COVID-19 related. You're just making stuff up with the rest of that."

 

The "rest of that" was a direct copy and paste from your link.  

 

I get that we aren't changing each others minds on anything.  I just found it funny that you were trying to use your own information to say I was stating false info.  

 

For what's it's worth, I follow the local DHM's and try to do my part.  No problem wearing a mask, social distancing, etc.  I however don't believe in the drastic measures we took as a country and push back when people discuss doing it again.  That doesn't mean I don't support increased measures when the moving target of hospital capacity dictates it.  Nebraska is still showing 30% ICU availability, 70% ventilator availability, and 26% overall hospital capacity (1236 beds).  I realize the capacity is getting close to the point hospitals will have to start putting off elective procedures.  That is a problem and I agree with the new measures that went in place yesterday for the state. 

 

Suggesting that we cancel football, is a knee jerk reaction, similar to other decisions that have been made in our country, that did absolutely no good for the situation of our current medical status.  Scott Frost and the boys playing on Saturday will not change our hospital capacity one way or the other.        

[knapplc]

5 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

Here is your quote - 

"Per the CDC, this is wrong. Of the 299,000 extra deaths, 2/3 are COVID-19 related. You're just making stuff up with the rest of that."

 

The "rest of that" was a direct copy and paste from your link.     

 

I don't know why you persist in this. Nothing in the CDC information I posted or you quoted supports this, which you made up:

 

Quote

 

I do believe that it's likely that a lot of them are related more to the stress placed on society though.  It's really unhealthy to live in fear/stress.  

 

 

It's fine if this is your opinion. It is not supported by anything you've posted or linked to, and you clearly think this is true because it's what you believe. 

 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

And in my post I said people should wear a mask.  Sorry you glossed over that point. 

 

I didn't quote you.

[southernoregonhusker]

5 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Do you have any source for the allegation that suicide rates will soar if we have a lockdown? Countries around the world have been in various states of lockdown throughout the pandemic. Have suicide rates "soared" in those countries? And if so, how do those suicide rates compare to deaths from COVID-19?

 

I can't find a source for the CDC and/or WHO saying spread "does not occur" in schools. High School kids definitely do contribute to spread, although it does appear that children 10 & under are not significant spreaders. High School kids have contributed, but at a lower rate than adults. 

 

 

The source is Trump's favorite doctor from Fox News Scott Atlas.  He's a radiologist.  

[teachercd]

4 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

If we are going to keep saying follow the science (which we should), then everyone should acknowledge that to date, there are no scientific studies showing that schools are super spreading centers.  

It isn't "the school", it is that the kids are now hanging out with each other, they are out more with each other and they are not getting tested.  Why would they?

[Courtesy Flush]

1 hour ago, southernoregonhusker said:

The source is Trump's favorite doctor from Fox News Scott Atlas.  He's a radiologist.  

 

Scott Atlas is the Desmond Howard of the physician world. As an infectious disease expert, he’s a... what sound does a duck make? A Quack! 
 

His colleagues (actual experts on infectious diseases) from Stanford are concerned:  https://pids.org/2020/10/08/open-letter-from-stanford-university-regarding-dr-scott-atlas/
 

Note: Researchers are still studying the effects of the virus on children and their rate of transmission. A study published in JAMA Pediatrics last month found infected children have at least as much of the coronavirus in their noses and throats as infected adults, according to the research.

[HuskerBee]

Sometimes I think the posters on this board fight harder to win a argument then our team does in the red zone. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, HuskerBee said:

Sometimes I think the posters on this board fight harder to win a argument then our team does in the red zone. 

 

Would you say this board is more offensive or defensive?  

[drfish]

I guess i will weigh in on this with my random thoughts. 

1.  Treatments have improved as you would expect it would as we gain more experience.  

2.  Covid deaths are under-reported.  The CDC information that is bolded in Hilltops post is not saying that cases are being misclassified as COVID 19.  It is saying that deaths that are likely directly or indirectly caused by covid are being classified as something else.

3.  Masks are the single most effective source control (something designed to prevent an infected person from spreading the infection to others) measure available to decrease the spread from asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic persons.  Self-isolation being the most effective for symptomatic individuals.  Anecdotally (which is clearly not scientific) in the case of our facility, we have had a few cases amongst the staff, but almost all could be traced back to a family contact and were not acquired through contact with patients (all staff and all patients are required to wear a mask with rare exceptions).  If masks were not very effective, I would have expected more cases of spread to staff from patients.  Most of the community acquired cases that I have seen have been related to mask-less exposures at family or similar events.

4.  Most business (with the exception of bars and restaurants where mask wearing is not possible) can be conducted in reasonable safety If staff and customers wear masks and try to keep their distance from each other.  We have to be mindfull that excessive restriction of trade will results in significant hardship as well due to loss of livelihood which can certainly have a negative impact on health.  Plus, we can't continuously depend upon the Federal Santa to keep printing money to give out without expecting to pay the price later. 

5.  The failure to issue a mask mandate by many Governors around the country is a lack of responsible leadership.  It would be like saying, "I think nobody should drink and drive, everyone should use good sense, but we cannot mandate not driving while intoxicated. "  

6.  I would have no problem with people refusing to wear masks if the mask protected them and not the others around them.  If you want to take a health risk, fine.  You are an adult and you can make your own decisions.  However, the decision not to wear a mask is a decision to put the people around you at risk and you don't have a valid right to do that.

7.  Taking reasonable precautions in not "living in fear."  

8.  Refusing to wear a mask in a business that asks you to do so is being a selfish a$$hole.

 

[DrinkinwitTerrellFarley]

12 hours ago, Cdog923 said:

 

Your personal anecdotes are not indicative of how the virus is treating everyone, or do your mother and stepfather's experiences invalidate the fact that my brother in law is still having trouble breathing 5 months after having Covid? Stop minimizing the dangers and unknowns of this virus; you've been doing it for 8 months now. 

Yep, exactly.  Two friends of mine, their fathers have passed away from the virus recently.   Less than two weeks ago, a friend from college in her 40's lost her life to Covid-19 and leaves behind a young daughter.  Everyone has pandemic fatigue at this point but we need to keep following science and caring about other people.  

[Rochelobe]

43 minutes ago, drfish said:

I guess i will weigh in on this with my random thoughts. 

1.  Treatments have improved as you would expect it would as we gain more experience.  

2.  Covid deaths are under-reported.  The CDC information that is bolded in Hilltops post is not saying that cases are being misclassified as COVID 19.  It is saying that deaths that are likely directly or indirectly caused by covid are being classified as something else.

3.  Masks are the single most effective source control (something designed to prevent an infected person from spreading the infection to others) measure available to decrease the spread from asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic persons.  Self-isolation being the most effective for symptomatic individuals.  Anecdotally (which is clearly not scientific) in the case of our facility, we have had a few cases amongst the staff, but almost all could be traced back to a family contact and were not acquired through contact with patients (all staff and all patients are required to wear a mask with rare exceptions).  If masks were not very effective, I would have expected more cases of spread to staff from patients.  Most of the community acquired cases that I have seen have been related to mask-less exposures at family or similar events.

4.  Most business (with the exception of bars and restaurants where mask wearing is not possible) can be conducted in reasonable safety If staff and customers wear masks and try to keep their distance from each other.  We have to be mindfull that excessive restriction of trade will results in significant hardship as well due to loss of livelihood which can certainly have a negative impact on health.  Plus, we can't continuously depend upon the Federal Santa to keep printing money to give out without expecting to pay the price later. 

5.  The failure to issue a mask mandate by many Governors around the country is a lack of responsible leadership.  It would be like saying, "I think nobody should drink and drive, everyone should use good sense, but we cannot mandate not driving while intoxicated. "  

6.  I would have no problem with people refusing to wear masks if the mask protected them and not the others around them.  If you want to take a health risk, fine.  You are an adult and you can make your own decisions.  However, the decision not to wear a mask is a decision to put the people around you at risk and you don't have a valid right to do that.

7.  Taking reasonable precautions in not "living in fear."  

8.  Refusing to wear a mask in a business that asks you to do so is being a selfish a$$hole.

 

I know your response will have to be anecdotal,  but in regards to number 3 on your list:

 

I would assume your staff is generally wearing medical grade masks - please correct if my assumption is wrong.   

 

However,  do you have a significant number of patients wearing cloth masks, or are they also wearing masks that are the same as the staff?

 

I ask because we hear one of the "finesse" arguments against masks is that only "N95 masks are effective,  cloth masks are worthless" .

 

I somehow doubt it is that binary, and the purveyors of that approach are just trying to excuse their resistance to wearing masks.

 

If the bulk of your patients wear cloth masks, yet you don't seem to have any traced transmissions to staff, that would indicate cloth masks are useful.  Or no patients have covid at the time they visit, which seems unlikely the longer the pandemic runs. 

 

I'm just tired of the anti mask whiners complaining about everything.   Debunking them is a full time job at times.