End of season in jeopardy?

[Husker NoNo]

8 hours ago, drfish said:

Cities in the midwest (where COVID is rising significantly compared to the coasts) with large university populations.  Yes, they have football teams.  They also have thousands of students who are more prone to party and ignore prevention recommendations.  This is probably cherry picking data (using the data that support your premise while ignoring the data that do not support it (Americans have become very good at this) and cum hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy (occurring together, therefore there is a causal relationship.  Does anybody REALLY believe that it is due to football teams spreading virus and not irresponsible general college population spreading virus?  If anything, the virus rates in all 5 conferences and the timing of the start of play suggests that the two are not related since the relationship to 1st game played and increases are much different.  Relating COVID spikes to FBS power 5 football is not supported by an initial look at the data.  If it was football related, then the curves in all the conferences should begin at roughly similar intervals from the onset of play.  I would argue that the graph shows the opposite.  There is no consistent relationship between the onset of games in power 5 conferences and the onset of spikes in cases.

 

I am glad that you have looked into logical fallacies, here are a couple more:

• "This is probably cherry picking data"
  • This is an example of an Ad Hominem fallacy (attacking the person who questions your argument).
• "Does anybody REALLY believe that it is due to football teams spreading virus and not irresponsible general college population spreading virus?"
  • This is an example of an Ad Populum fallacy (why waste time with evidence when "everyone" says it is right?)
• "Relating COVID spikes to FBS power 5 football is not supported by an initial look at the data."
• "If it was football related, then the curves in all the conferences should begin at roughly similar intervals from the onset of play."
  • These are examples of the Hasty Generalization fallacy.
• "There is no consistent relationship between the onset of games in power 5 conferences and the onset of spikes in cases."
  • An example of Ad Ignoratium (appeal to ignorance, if no one here can prove false, it must be true)

 

 

 

[bugeater17]

56 minutes ago, Husker NoNo said:

 

I am glad that you have looked into logical fallacies, here are a couple more:

• "This is probably cherry picking data"
  • This is an example of an Ad Hominem fallacy (attacking the person who questions your argument).
• "Does anybody REALLY believe that it is due to football teams spreading virus and not irresponsible general college population spreading virus?"
  • This is an example of an Ad Populum fallacy (why waste time with evidence when "everyone" says it is right?)
• "Relating COVID spikes to FBS power 5 football is not supported by an initial look at the data."
• "If it was football related, then the curves in all the conferences should begin at roughly similar intervals from the onset of play."
  • These are examples of the Hasty Generalization fallacy.
• "There is no consistent relationship between the onset of games in power 5 conferences and the onset of spikes in cases."
  • An example of Ad Ignoratium (appeal to ignorance, if no one here can prove false, it must be true)

 

 

 

 

[Mavric]

A few posts have been moved to the P&R Tangent thread in the Shed.  

 

I realize there are political aspects to this but those discussions need to be in P&R, not Football.

[BigRedBuster]

9 hours ago, I am I said:

At this point, I care less about cases and more about outcomes. 
 

the cases of this will go on forever, as far as we know. 
 

the outcomes of those cases has changed dramatically. Give me the outcomes of the cases. 

Of ALL cases, what are the outcome? 

 

Number of cases is important.  But, more importantly is the deaths and hospitalizations.  The number of cases are obviously skyrocketing.  That's an important issue.  However, we are still averaging around 1,000 deaths per day which is unacceptable and our hospital systems are being overwhelmed.  If that issue gets worse, the deaths are going to start rising.  And....remember, when the hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID patients, patients with other ailments will have worse outcomes and more deaths due to the health systems not being able to take care of them properly.  

 

So, even though the case numbers aren't the end all be all statistic to look at, they are a leading indicator of more severe issues down the road.

[VectorVictor]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Number of cases is important.  But, more importantly is the deaths and hospitalizations.  The number of cases are obviously skyrocketing.  That's an important issue.  However, we are still averaging around 1,000 deaths per day which is unacceptable and our hospital systems are being overwhelmed.  If that issue gets worse, the deaths are going to start rising.  And....remember, when the hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID patients, patients with other ailments will have worse outcomes and more deaths due to the health systems not being able to take care of them properly.  

 

So, even though the case numbers aren't the end all be all statistic to look at, they are a leading indicator of more severe issues down the road.

 

Very good points. People seem to forget the whole reason we shut down in March was to avoid the Italian scenario that we're quickly running to--where doctors will be forced to triage and decide who gets to live and die because beds have run out due to selfish ***hats that couldn't wear a mask and not act like a tittybaby. We're starting to see this on the border in Texas, where El Paso, Brownsville, and the like are starting to send their sick to larger metropolitan areas because of a lack of beds, and now places like Houston and DFW are starting to fill to capacity. 

 

And no, it's not as simple as just getting more ICU beds---these rooms have to have self-contained ventilation, ventilators and respirators, and a way for staff to decontaminate. You don't just throw that s*** together overnight.

 

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

A few posts have been moved to the P&R Tangent thread in the Shed.  

 

I realize there are political aspects to this but those discussions need to be in P&R, not Football.

 

(Mavric, this isn't against you or addressed to you.)

 

To me it's nigh pathetic that a pandemic has become politicized by certain folks. Viruses don't give a flying **** what your political party affiliation is. 

 

[skersfan]

I heard last night that the Michigan Governor shut down all amateur athletics in Michigan.  Will that include the college level athletics?

[Mavric]

3 minutes ago, skersfan said:

I heard last night that the Michigan Governor shut down all amateur athletics in Michigan.  Will that include the college level athletics?

 

When there were come curfews or travel restrictions or something similar a month ago, university athletics were exempt.  I'm sure that's still the case.

[swmohusker]

8 minutes ago, skersfan said:

I heard last night that the Michigan Governor shut down all amateur athletics in Michigan.  Will that include the college level athletics?

I believe It does not include major colleges that have strict covid protocols in place

[runningblind]

7 hours ago, skersfan said:

I heard last night that the Michigan Governor shut down all amateur athletics in Michigan.  Will that include the college level athletics?

I think it's being enforced,  I haven't seen Michigan play football all season.