New AD or Head Coach

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think that following the season Moos will sit down with Frost and tell him that the lack of progress is concerning, and that some changes need to be made. He will allow Frost to make the hirings/firings and will give him 2 more years to show some marked improvement. If that improvement isn't evident, Frost will be gone. The lack of development of our players, the consistently sloppy & undisciplined play, and the high number of players jumping ship are all huge areas of concern.

[All Hail Herbie]

I think it is profoundly unfair to lay the blame for this program's ineptitude at the feet of this Athletic Director.  Hindsight is always 20 / 20 and we know that three years ago we had a fan base, a donor base and an administration clamoring for the strongest head coaching candidate in years (who just happened to be a favorite son) to return.  Had AD Moos gone a different direction, and even succeeded, fans and donors would always question why Moos had "failed" to sign the favorite son.

 

I believed too that this was the best choice at the time.  However, after 3 years, and with comparison to other recent hires (Mullen - UF / Fisher - TX A&M / Kliemann - K-State) it is very difficult now to call this a good fit.  The problems with this program are now bigger than 1 coach can resolve.  We are fast becoming Arkansas, a traditional power whose history is now completely detached from its' program.  Very sad.

[Guy Chamberlin]

in 2015, the year Nebraska fired Bo Pelini, there was only one football coach who was considered a sure thing.

 

Jim Harbaugh. And Harbaugh was only willing to leave the NFL for his alma matter and millions of dollars. 

 

Sure enough, Harbaugh took Brady Hoke's 5-7 team and turned them around immediately to a 10-3 record and perhaps the best defense in the country. 

 

In 2020, Harbaugh faces an angrier fanbase than Scott Frost does at Nebraska. I'd be surprised if he's at Michigan next season.

 

So what's my point? I'm not sure. Maybe just that coaches can turn losing programs around immediately, and our fanbase isn't more or less demanding than our peer programs. 

 

[HuskerNation1]

47 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

in 2015, the year Nebraska fired Bo Pelini, there was only one football coach who was considered a sure thing.

 

Jim Harbaugh. And Harbaugh was only willing to leave the NFL for his alma matter and millions of dollars. 

 

Sure enough, Harbaugh took Brady Hoke's 5-7 team and turned them around immediately to a 10-3 record and perhaps the best defense in the country. 

 

In 2020, Harbaugh faces an angrier fanbase than Scott Frost does at Nebraska. I'd be surprised if he's at Michigan next season.

 

So what's my point? I'm not sure. Maybe just that coaches can turn losing programs around immediately, and our fanbase isn't more or less demanding than our peer programs. 

 

 

I think it's interesting to hear discussion of Harbaugh and Frost together. Both are former QBs who now coach their alma maters. Both had some success in other aspects of coaching (Harbaugh at Stanford and in the NFL and Frost for one season at UCF) but both have struggled to meet expectations in the Big Ten.  I know I have said it in other threads but coaching in the BIG is not like coaching anywhere else, whether its the Pac 12, the Big 12 or in the NFL/UCF.   I think both Frost and Harbaugh felt they could take what they were doing previously (with success) at other programs and just apply it to the Big Ten, but that has not worked out very well.  That is why I believe Frost really needs to rethink his entire coaching philosophy this off season, spend time with those he views as mentors, and be willing to open his mind that his approach has not worked and he needs to try something new.  I think being humble and showing a willingness to do things differently would not only help the program but also earn him more patience and respect from the fan base.

[HuskerNation1]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I think that following the season Moos will sit down with Frost and tell him that the lack of progress is concerning, and that some changes need to be made. He will allow Frost to make the hirings/firings and will give him 2 more years to show some marked improvement. If that improvement isn't evident, Frost will be gone. The lack of development of our players, the consistently sloppy & undisciplined play, and the high number of players jumping ship are all huge areas of concern.

 

Of all the facets of the program, the one you called out (lack of player development) is probably my biggest concern.  While there are certainly a few exceptions, many players have remained stagnant or actually taken steps backwards the longer they have spent in the program. Obviously Adrian Martinez is a prime example, but we have seen others on offense continue to struggle.  Jurgens came out of high school highly touted and was moved to a position he had little experience in and has yet to live up to the hype we all had for him.  Wandale had a stellar freshman season but is not producing near the numbers this year.  I think we have actually seen more development (thought its slight) on the defensive side of the ball.  I do like our LB crew and Britt, despite the botched fumble this past week, has been pretty good this year.  But for the program to really move ahead, we need to see consistent player development all around.

[Blackshirt316]

21 hours ago, Lightfighter214 said:

The reality is in context, people trust their eyes and what they see. They are seeing thigs get worse.

 

And in the context of frost, very few, if any coaches have turned a program around completely after starting as he has the last 3 years.

 

Can complain about 'culture' all you want, but with the good ones that happens faster then 3-4 years.

 

Except literally the guy who followed this exact blueprint Frost is following. And that guy built his program doing the the same things Frost is doing because that guy was taught by the same guy that taught Frost.

 

Barry Alverez took the Wisconsin Job in 1990. More than 50 players left the program over the next three years while he spent interview after interview talking about culture and pointing to what worked where he came from as he rebuilt the program from the ground up.

 

In year 1 he went 1-10

In year 2 he went 5-6

In year 3 he went 5-6

In year 4 he went 10-1-1 and won the Rose Bowl.

 

The Big Ten is a tougher league now than when Barry took over at Wisconsin and Covid has messed this season up for everyone, but otherwise Frost's tenure so far is following that same blueprint, its just going to take an extra year or two.

 

The biggest question is does Frost have the right guys around him to do it. Alvarez had guys like Russ Jacques, Brad Childress and Dan McCarney on his staff. Jacques and then Childress both had years of experience coaching at Big Ten level jobs and McCarney was at least the DL coach at Iowa. Frost's guys were not nearly as accomplished going into their time here and a few haven't yet proven they belong at this level.

[FrantzHardySwag]

6 minutes ago, Blackshirt316 said:

 

Except literally the guy who followed this exact blueprint Frost is following. And that guy built his program doing the the same things Frost is doing because that guy was taught by the same guy that taught Frost.

 

Barry Alverez took the Wisconsin Job in 1990. More than 50 players left the program over the next three years while he spent interview after interview talking about culture and pointing to what worked where he came from as he rebuilt the program from the ground up.

 

In year 1 he went 1-10

In year 2 he went 5-6

In year 3 he went 5-6

In year 4 he went 10–1–1 and won the Rosebowl.

 

The Big Ten is a tougher league now than when Barry took over at Wisconsin and Covid has messed this season up for everyone, but otherwise Frost's tenure so far is following that same blueprint, its just going to take an extra year or two.

Alverez took over for a guy that won 6 total games the previous 3 seasons. 11 wins in the first 3 years was significant progress over the previous guy. 

[Canadian Fan]

36 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Of all the facets of the program, the one you called out (lack of player development) is probably my biggest concern.  While there are certainly a few exceptions, many players have remained stagnant or actually taken steps backwards the longer they have spent in the program. Obviously Adrian Martinez is a prime example, but we have seen others on offense continue to struggle.  Jurgens came out of high school highly touted and was moved to a position he had little experience in and has yet to live up to the hype we all had for him.  Wandale had a stellar freshman season but is not producing near the numbers this year.  I think we have actually seen more development (thought its slight) on the defensive side of the ball.  I do like our LB crew and Britt, despite the botched fumble this past week, has been pretty good this year.  But for the program to really move ahead, we need to see consistent player development all around.

In the above context, define what you mean by “player development”?

 

To me if you look at Wandale in particular, as an individual player he’s developed just fine.  He’s fast enough.  He’s strong enough.  He seems to know his part of playbook and when given the ball executes with fumbling.  It is the system and play calling that are hindering his results.  
 

Big question is are we really having a player development issue?  Or a coaching development issue?

[Mavric]

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I think that following the season Moos will sit down with Frost and tell him that the lack of progress is concerning, and that some changes need to be made. He will allow Frost to make the hirings/firings and will give him 2 more years to show some marked improvement. If that improvement isn't evident, Frost will be gone. The lack of development of our players, the consistently sloppy & undisciplined play, and the high number of players jumping ship are all huge areas of concern.

 

I don't know how anyone can really make such a sweeping generality accurately.  I'm sure people would point to QB play and lack of WR threats as evidence of lack of development.  But there are a lot of factors that go into QB play.  Our QB just broke the school record for completion percentage.  Is that more how he'll look when other things around him aren't terrible?  Are we not developing WRs or just so short-handed that our options are limited?  

 

We're playing a sophomore who switched positions and two freshmen on the offensive line.  Does that indicate we've done a really good job of developing to be able to compete in the B1G that early?  Stille is our best defensive linemen then the next two are probably a freshman and a sophomore.  Is that evidence of good development?  Maybe our best linebacker is a walk-on who had no Power 5 offers out of high school.  Is that great development?  One starting corner is an undersized player who only got noticed because he ran fast at a satellite camp.  Have we done a good job developing him?

 

I would guess for every supposed example of lack of development there are at least as many examples that could be considered really good development.  I think "lack of development" is mainly just another lazy complaint when the results aren't what we want.

[Blackshirt316]

8 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Alverez took over for a guy that won 6 total games the previous 3 seasons. 11 wins in the first 3 years was significant progress over the previous guy. 

 

Yes and no. He replaced games with Miami and Cal with games against WMU and EMU then and beat Iowa State, Northwestern and Minnesota. 3 teams that won a combined 4 conference games that year. If Frost had replaced Colorado with a sunbelt team and somehow traded OSU for Rutgers on the schedule. He'd have done significantly better than his predecessor last year too.

[Canadian Fan]

For the record I was totally behind the Scott Frost hire. I thought he was the perfect candidate to reset the culture.  I thought we were going to get the best of what I thought I saw of Frost as a QB, mixed in with the wisdom of Tom Osborne. That being said, I’m more than a little disappointed at the lack of his evolution as the CEO of his team.  There have been enough examples of first-year coaches coming in and successfully turning around a team and getting better on the field results after one offseason and one recruiting class.  He should have had enough time by now to see strong evidence the ship is turning.  This year I had no expectation of beating OSU.  That would be an unfair ask.  But this year I was hoping for more games where the key takeaways weren’t us all analyzing the multiple ways the team managed to shoot off its own toes. That should have ended long ago.  The fact it hasn’t should be a huge red flag to Coach Frost that his staff, on some very fundamental level, is doing some key things wrong.  They need to do that uncomfortable deep dive and without bias identify what the ugly truths are and as a unit target the key issues one at a time and get them fixed.  More than anything else they need to find a way to end this season on a stronger note than they started it, so they can build momentum heading into 2021.

[HuskerNation1]

50 minutes ago, Canadian Fan said:

In the above context, define what you mean by “player development”?

 

To me if you look at Wandale in particular, as an individual player he’s developed just fine.  He’s fast enough.  He’s strong enough.  He seems to know his part of playbook and when given the ball executes with fumbling.  It is the system and play calling that are hindering his results.  
 

Big question is are we really having a player development issue?  Or a coaching development issue?

 

You are right that the system the coaches are using is not utilizing the players natural talent to its fullest potential.  I think Jurgens may be a prime example of this.  When I think player development, I am thinking of a player who is in the same position and they have shown noticeable growth from a prior season. 

 

Martinez is an example where he was really strong his freshman year and he has gradually regressed from there.  Was that a result of Frost and Verduzco getting into his head about various technical items and taking away his natural instincts and abilities?  It seems clear to me that Martinez best year was his first year and he has not been as effective since then.  I also was hoping to see more growth with the offensive line this season and instead its been stagnant at best.  

[HuskerNation1]

36 minutes ago, Canadian Fan said:

For the record I was totally behind the Scott Frost hire. I thought he was the perfect candidate to reset the culture.  I thought we were going to get the best of what I thought I saw of Frost as a QB, mixed in with the wisdom of Tom Osborne. That being said, I’m more than a little disappointed at the lack of his evolution as the CEO of his team.  There have been enough examples of first-year coaches coming in and successfully turning around a team and getting better on the field results after one offseason and one recruiting class.  He should have had enough time by now to see strong evidence the ship is turning.  This year I had no expectation of beating OSU.  That would be an unfair ask.  But this year I was hoping for more games where the key takeaways weren’t us all analyzing the multiple ways the team managed to shoot off its own toes. That should have ended long ago.  The fact it hasn’t should be a huge red flag to Coach Frost that his staff, on some very fundamental level, is doing some key things wrong.  They need to do that uncomfortable deep dive and without bias identify what the ugly truths are and as a unit target the key issues one at a time and get them fixed.  More than anything else they need to find a way to end this season on a stronger note than they started it, so they can build momentum heading into 2021.

 

Well said!

[TheSker]

6 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

You are right that the system the coaches are using is not utilizing the players natural talent to its fullest potential.  I think Jurgens may be a prime example of this.  When I think player development, I am thinking of a player who is in the same position and they have shown noticeable growth from a prior season. 

 

Martinez is an example where he was really strong his freshman year and he has gradually regressed from there.  Was that a result of Frost and Verduzco getting into his head about various technical items and taking away his natural instincts and abilities?  It seems clear to me that Martinez best year was his first year and he has not been as effective since then.  I also was hoping to see more growth with the offensive line this season and instead its been stagnant at best.  

In his THIRD season as Nebraska's head football coach, Mike Riley lost his last three games by EIGHTY SEVEN points.

[krc1995]

1 minute ago, TheSker said:

In his THIRD season as Nebraska's head football coach, Mike Riley lost his last three games by EIGHTY SEVEN points.

That’s something that doesn’t get mentioned when we’re revising history to support our misery.