New AD or Head Coach

[Husker03]

8 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

Yes and no.  I agree that it’s past time to keep bringing it up.  Not really sure why it surfaced again.

 

But as I said before the season, the lack of quality upperclassmen is still as issue from the last regime that we’re dealing with.  Keith Williams failed to recruit a single receiver that contributed in three years.  We are starting a sophomore and two freshmen on the offensive line in part because there aren’t any upperclassmen who can handle it.  Most of our linebackers are Frost recruits.  Almost all our receivers are Frost recruits.  All our RBs are Frost recruits.  All our QBs are Frost recruits.  I think we are running some good players out there but especially along the lines it’s usually better to have guys who have been around longer.  And obviously the lack of quality receivers has really hurt the last two years.

Another college game I was watching this weekend the topic came up in the announcer booth that the QB was a RS Frosh and was doing pretty well in his first season under center but when they spoke with him about it he brought up his predominantly SR O-line and RB's and how much of a boon that had been for him because they help so much with the security in the pocket but also just knowing so much about how the offense is supposed to work that if he makes mistakes or doesn't understand something perfectly, they guide him through it. Really brought home, at least in my head, how irrational it is to expect a team predominately composed of underclassman to be consistently perfect. I think of my expectations in the NFL if there was a team  of rookies.. Wouldn't be super high and there is a reason we all temper expectations in those situations when a bunch of first year players end up at key positions. Breath.. Let these boys grow up. It is going to be sweet to watch when the patience gets rewarded over the next 3 years. 

[Wistrom Disciple]

28 minutes ago, Enhance said:

The numbers/results are probably different, but reminds me a bit of the BP situation a little bit. Good overall winning record, underwhelming against top competition, no titles.

 

Based on Michigan's talent, it's hard to argue that Jim Harbaugh has done a good enough job up there, particularly with the inability to develop a quarterback. I don't know if I know what's been going on up there well enough to say whether he should be fired yet though.

Agreed that it's similar to the Bo argument. One factor I would include is that Bo went to three conference title games in his seven years across the two conferences. Admittedly, Wisconsin did wipe the floor with us in the one we went to in the Big Ten but we were there and I believed we were on the cusp of a return before his firing. 

 

The talent argument is certainly justified as they've had highly regarded players and classes for years but haven't been able to get over the hump. In a sense, it reminds me of an LSU situation at QB. Enough talent on the team to play some big time games but just can't seem to solve the QB puzzle. 

 

If I'm Michigan though, I would be very careful on letting him go. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 11/27/2020 at 1:22 PM, HuskerNation1 said:

I think all of Husker Nation realizes that Scott Frost is not the answer as our head coach. 

 

Lost me at the first sentence. Plenty if not a majority of Husker Nation is more embarrassed by posts like yours than Scott Frost's record. Doesn't mean Scott's seat isn't or shouldn't warm, just that your powers of observation have traditionally been pretty awful. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

15 hours ago, PasstheDamnBallGuy said:

I live in Texas and when I told people I'm a Nebraska fan they would tell me how much they loved Bos intensity and passion during his first few years. 

 

When I told out-of-staters I was a Nebraska fan back then, they always asked what Bo Pelini's problem was. 

[HuskerNation1]

23 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Lost me at the first sentence. Plenty if not a majority of Husker Nation is more embarrassed by posts like yours than Scott Frost's record. Doesn't mean Scott's seat isn't or shouldn't warm, just that your powers of observation have traditionally been pretty awful. 

 

Right on task picking out one sentence out of a post filled with data.  I have seen plenty of Husker fans who agree that Frost is not meeting expectations and who are showing concern with the lack of progress that has been made in his first 3 years.  It's actually embarrassing to see blind allegiance to a former player and criticizing anyone who provides data showing a lack of tangible progress.  As I said in my prior post, if Mike Riley had 3 straight losing seasons and was 10-19 in his 3rd year as Nebraska coach, many would be calling for his dismissal or speaking loudly about a lack of progress.  Riley actually went 19-19 in 3 seasons and was let go.  

 

In fact, we can probably look back a few years ago in this forum seeing many on here wanting Riley to be dismissed after his 3rd year.  

[Huskerfan1985]

I have a hard time blaming Moos.  He hired the coach that the fan base desperately wanted.  Nothing wrong with that.  His biggest mistake was adding on the extension that was completely undeserved.  The Hoiberg hire and his handling of the rest of the sports seem to fine.

 

However, after 2.5 seasons of Frost a few things are fairly obvious.  Frost is not good at evaluating and utilizing talent.  This was shown in his first season by having Ozigbo 3rd on the RB depth chart and directly aided in the 0-6 start. Further evidence is Jurgens being transitioned to center and being allowed to play despite consistently failing at the bare minimum.  The handling of the QB's is another example.  He cant quite figure out a coherent plan to manage backups and split time with the starter.  Lastly, look at the WR group.  Warner is not a D1 WR at any other program.  For some reason, Frost plays "favorites" with lesser talented players.  All of this leads to players that actually have talent to hit the transfer portal, which is exactly what we've seen.

 

Another clear indication of poor coaching from the top is special teams.  Sure, you can blame the coordinator, but I've watched shaky special teams since Frost got here.  Top to bottom, across all aspects special teams is arguably the worst area under Frost.  Punting, kicking, coverage, fielding a punt, hell getting 11 guys on the field has been too much to ask at times.

 

The one area that has slightly improved is defense.  Still outmatched for P5 football, but at least they are finding turnovers.  Outside of Nelson, there is even some pretty good talent on the DL and LB.  

 

I'd love to see the coach figure this out but short of  a miracle, I think we can see where this is headed.  I'd give him until the end of next year only because of the length of the contract and how much money we are on the hook for. 

 

 

[Mavric]

Just now, HuskerNation1 said:

Right on task picking out one sentence out of a post filled with data.  I have seen plenty of Husker fans who agree that Frost is not meeting expectations and who are showing concern with the lack of progress that has been made in his first 3 years.  It's actually embarrassing to see blind allegiance to a former player and criticizing anyone who provides data showing a lack of tangible progress.  As I said in my prior post, if Mike Riley had 3 straight losing seasons and was 10-19 in his 3rd year as Nebraska coach, many would be calling for his dismissal or speaking loudly about a lack of progress.  Riley actually went 19-19 in 3 seasons and was let go.  

 

First, if you're so into data you should be able to recognize the difference between "all of Husker nation" and "plenty of Husker fans".  He pointed out that you were factually inaccurate on that.  

 

And also if we're going to look into the data can we point out that not all wins and losses are the same?  In his third year Riley was down 42-0 to Ohio State early in the third quarter.  Frost was tied at 14 shortly before half time.  Those are both losses but they are not equal.  Riley was down 42-10 at halftime to Penn State.  Iowa scored 49 straight points to beat us 56-14.  This year the Illinois game was a disaster but we've been pretty competitive in the rest of the games - having a chance to win on our last possession in two of them.

 

Also, they didn't start from the same point.  Riley inherited a team that had won at least 9 games the previous seven years.  Frost inherited the dumpster fire outlined above.  

 

So no, just simply looking at the records to pass judgement doesn't necessarily mean that much.  You may have had a "post filled with data" but it was only the data that supported your narrative.

[HuskerNation1]

31 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

First, if you're so into data you should be able to recognize the difference between "all of Husker nation" and "plenty of Husker fans".  He pointed out that you were factually inaccurate on that.  

 

And also if we're going to look into the data can we point out that not all wins and losses are the same?  In his third year Riley was down 42-0 to Ohio State early in the third quarter.  Frost was tied at 14 shortly before half time.  Those are both losses but they are not equal.  Riley was down 42-10 at halftime to Penn State.  Iowa scored 49 straight points to beat us 56-14.  This year the Illinois game was a disaster but we've been pretty competitive in the rest of the games - having a chance to win on our last possession in two of them.

 

Also, they didn't start from the same point.  Riley inherited a team that had won at least 9 games the previous seven years.  Frost inherited the dumpster fire outlined above.  

 

So no, just simply looking at the records to pass judgement doesn't necessarily mean that much.  You may have had a "post filled with data" but it was only the data that supported your narrative.

 

Fair point on the first comment, but if you look throughout the rest of my posts, I have said nearly all or added many fans as I realize the first post was at a point of frustration after another loss.  With that said, the sentiments of these posts still holds true, along with these realities:

 

• Frost still remains a head coach with a .250 winning season percentage (1 in 4) and soon to be one in 5
• Despite inheriting a bad program from Riley, Frost was more competitive against Ohio State in his first season with many of Riley's recruits than he was in year 3 against OSU.  
• Offensive production during Frost's 3 years has trended down, from 57th in total offense in 2018 to 72nd in 2019 and 107th in 2020.  And this was supposed to be Frost's strength
• Team defense rankings were 88th in 2018, improved to 57th in 2019 and now sit at 90th in year 3
• Frost's team finished 5th in the West Division in Years 1 and 2 and we are on track to finish worse than than in Year 3.  Now perhaps we win a couple remaining games and claw our way bakc to a 5th place finish, so there is room for improvement
• Frost has the worst winning perecentage of any Husker head coach since Bill Jennings in the 1950s
• Culture items and team discipline continue to plague Nebraska, whether its penalties, turnovers, etc.. 

I don't think the data I am sharing is biased to fill a narrative.  I really do not see a lot of objective data out there that shows Frost has the program trending in the right direction.  And as some have said throughout this thread, the eye test does not show such improvements in Year 3.  I know that you do not like threads where we might criticize Frost, but in my mind he should be treated objectively just as we all treated Mike Riley or any other coach.  I didn't give Mike Riley a pass because he was such a nice guy and was well liked by the broader football community, and I don't give Frost a pass because he is a former player.  I realize Frost will get a 4th season (and likely more because his contract was extended to 2026), and I hope he can make some significant changes in the off season to find a new path forward, but I am not impressed with what he has done with the program since he was hired 3 years ago this week.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

52 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Right on task picking out one sentence out of a post filled with data.  I have seen plenty of Husker fans who agree that Frost is not meeting expectations and who are showing concern with the lack of progress that has been made in his first 3 years.  It's actually embarrassing to see blind allegiance to a former player and criticizing anyone who provides data showing a lack of tangible progress.  As I said in my prior post, if Mike Riley had 3 straight losing seasons and was 10-19 in his 3rd year as Nebraska coach, many would be calling for his dismissal or speaking loudly about a lack of progress.  Riley actually went 19-19 in 3 seasons and was let go.  

 

 

Believe it or not, I don't disagree with what you've said above. I've posted similar sentiments myself. 

 

Just saying that opening a new thread with "all of Husker Nation realizes Scott Frost is not the answer at head coach" is categorically wrong even forgiving the hyperbole. You're implying that the evidence is already there and Scott needs to go now. So not only does "all" of Nebraska not agree with you,  you're probably in the minority. In addition to blind Frost loyalists there are fans who simply want Frost to make his own changes, and an overwhelming majority who consider yet another new coaching search to be unhealthy for the program at this point. As in: who is available, who wants to come here, how much will they cost, and what exactly will change?

 

I think HuskerBoard posters are a little more cynical. My ventures into Facebook, LJS & OWH, and 247 Sports comments sections finds a lot of Husker fans who are genuinely embarrassed by fellow Husker fans jumping on and off coaching bandwagons. I personally think Frost has earned the heat and needs to address it, but I still can't endorse your lead sentence and what you consider the obvious course of action. Dragging Moos into it is a stretch, too. 

[HuskerNation1]

8 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Believe it or not, I don't disagree with what you've said above. I've posted similar sentiments myself. 

 

Just saying that opening a new thread with "all of Husker Nation realizes Scott Frost is not the answer at head coach" is categorically wrong. You're implying that the evidence is already there and Scott needs to go now. So not only does "all" of Nebraska not agree with you, and you're probably in the minority. In addition to blind Frost loyalists there are fans who simply want Frost to make his own changes, and an overwhelming majority who consider yet another new coaching search to be unhealthy for the program at this point. As in: who is available, who wants to come here, how much will they cost, and what exactly will change?

 

I think HuskerBoard posters are a little more cynical. My ventures into Facebook, LJS & OWH, and 247 Sports comments sections finds a lot of Husker fans who are genuinely embarrassed by fellow Husker fans jumping on and off coaching bandwagons. I personally think Frost has earned the heat and needs to address it, but I still can't endorse your lead sentence. 

 

Sure as I replied to Mavric, its a fair point as I posted this when I was most frustrated with the latest loss.  In fact, thanks for pointing it out as I can tweak that wording.  I am certainly open and receptive to being called out if something I post is off base or an absolute statement that does not need to be.  

 

As for the social media I view, the tide appears to have turned against Frost these past 2 weeks. I am not saying he cannot regain the trust of these fans, but it's been more noticeable than any point in his 3 years as head coach.

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 minute ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Sure as I replied to Mavric, its a fair point as I posted this when I was most frustrated with the latest loss.  In fact, thanks for pointing it out as I can tweak that wording.  I am certainly open and receptive to being called out if something I post is off base or an absolute statement that does not need to be.  

 

As for the social media I view, the tide appears to have turned against Frost these past 2 weeks. I am not saying he can regain the trust of these fans, but it's been more noticeable than any point in his 3 years as head coach.

 

I believe the most unifying sentiment in December 2017 was that if Scott Frost can't turn this program around, nobody can. 

 

So yeah, this is a low point for both Frost and the program. Solutions are a little harder to agree on. 

[commando]

pretty sure that scott has at least 1 more year before he really has to worry...probably at least 2.    if things havent got better by then he wil certainly be gone.  not sure that moos would have to go at that point since he would have been lynched if he had hired anyone other than scott at the time.  we got what we demanded so not sure why moos would have to be fired.

[Mavric]

17 minutes ago, HuskerNation1 said:

 

Fair point on the first comment, but if you look throughout the rest of my posts, I have said nearly all or added many fans as I realize the first post was at a point of frustration after another loss.  With that said, the sentiments of these posts still holds true, along with these realities:

 

• Frost still remains a head coach with a .250 winning season percentage (1 in 4) and soon to be one in 5
• Despite inheriting a bad program from Riley, Frost was more competitive against Ohio State in his first season with many of Riley's recruits than he was in year 3 against OSU.  
• Offensive production during Frost's 3 years has trended down, from 57th in total offense in 2018 to 72nd in 2019 and 107th in 2020.  And this was supposed to be Frost's strength
• Team defense rankings were 88th in 2018, improved to 57th in 2019 and now sit at 90th in year 3
• Culture items and team discipline continue to plague Nebraska, whether its penalties, turnovers, etc.. 

I don't think the data I am sharing is biased to fill a narrative.  I really do not see a lot of objective data out there that shows Frost has the program trending in the right direction.  And as some have said throughout this thread, the eye test does not show such improvements in Year 3.  I know that you do not like threads where we might criticize Frost, but in my mind he should be treated objectively just as we all treated Mike Riley or any other coach.  I didn't give Mike Riley a pass because he was such a nice guy and was well liked by the broader football community, and I don't give Frost a pass because he is a former player.  I realize Frost will get a 4th season (and likely more because his contract was extended to 2026), and I hope he can make some significant changes in the off season to find a new path forward, but I am not impressed with what he has done with the program since he was hired 3 years ago this week.  

 

Eh, you're pinning a lot on one game against Ohio State.  If those were mostly Riley's recruits (more on that in a minute), why was Frost able to do so much better in his first year than Riley was the year before with his own recruits?

 

Second, you're stretching to say they are mostly Riley recruits in that first Ohio State game. 

 - Martinez was the QB (Frost) - 266 yards

 - Rushing yards were Ozigbo with 86 (Riley), Martinez with 72 (Frost), Washington with 16 (Frost), Spielman with 6 (Riley) and Morgan with 4 (Pelini)

 - Receiving was Morgan 87 (Pelini), Spielman 61 (Riley), Allen 41 (Riley), Williams 21 (Frost), Washington 20 (Frost), Stoll 17 (Riley), Ozigbo 13 (Riley), Reimers 6 (Pelini)

 

So Frost had 100% of the passing yards, rushing yards were 50% Riley, 48% Frost and 2% Pelini.  Receiving was 50% Riley, 35% Pelini and 15% Frost.  So Frost had been able to acquire enough talent on offense in 9 months to outdo Riley in a lot of areas and still had one Pelini holdover that made a huge difference.

[HuskerNation1]

9 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Eh, you're pinning a lot on one game against Ohio State.  If those were mostly Riley's recruits (more on that in a minute), why was Frost able to do so much better in his first year than Riley was the year before with his own recruits?

 

Second, you're stretching to say they are mostly Riley recruits in that first Ohio State game. 

 - Martinez was the QB (Frost) - 266 yards

 - Rushing yards were Ozigbo with 86 (Riley), Martinez with 72 (Frost), Washington with 16 (Frost), Spielman with 6 (Riley) and Morgan with 4 (Pelini)

 - Receiving was Morgan 87 (Pelini), Spielman 61 (Riley), Allen 41 (Riley), Williams 21 (Frost), Washington 20 (Frost), Stoll 17 (Riley), Ozigbo 13 (Riley), Reimers 6 (Pelini)

 

So Frost had 100% of the passing yards, rushing yards were 50% Riley, 48% Frost and 2% Pelini.  Receiving was 50% Riley, 35% Pelini and 15% Frost.  So Frost had been able to acquire enough talent on offense in 9 months to outdo Riley in a lot of areas and still had one Pelini holdover that made a huge difference.

 

In your prior post you were trying to argue that Frost was doing better than Riley and you picked a couple of games to make that point.  I have shared counter points that Frost Year 3 is doing worse than Frost Year 1 did.  Regardless, Frost was hired to improve the program from Riley and not to be his equal (or worse).  I don't think any of us thought we would be 3 years into Frost's tenure and having discussions on whether or not he was better than his predecessor. That statement alone is a sign that things are not going well under Frost as there appeared to be majority support after Riley Year 3 that he was not the right coach for Nebraska.

 

Were you supportive of firing Riley after his 3rd season?

 

 

[Mavric]

Just now, HuskerNation1 said:

Were you supportive of firing Riley after his 3rd season?

 

I was skeptical of Riley from the time he was hired, even though I was apparently in the minority in knowing much about him before he was announced.  He had some nice wins at Oregon State but I didn't think it was probably a good choice.  It took me exactly one half of one game - in the Stadium for the BYU game - to know that if that's the kind of defense he was still fine with running after being with Banker for however many years, it was not going to work.