DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Just now, knapplc said: Drink! Indeed! Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Wait...? I thought Trump got beat by 10 million votes...he isn't the President. Why in the world would you, or any other Liberal be worried about him 3 years from now...? TDS indeed. The fact that you think Trump won by 10 million and not 40k tells me you don't know how elections work. Democrats have won more votes in every Presidential election but one since 1988 (and will continue to do so). What has that got them? Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Just now, Dr. Strangelove said: The fact that you think Trump won by 10 million and not 40k tells me you don't know how elections work. WTF are you talking about here? 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: WTF are you talking about here? Popular vote vs electoral college Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, RedDenver said: Popular vote vs electoral college I get the overall sentiment of the entire post, thanks, but that doesn't address my question. Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: WTF are you talking about here? You see, in the United States we have something called the Electoral College. Under this system, Republicans don't even try to win more overall votes, they don't have too. In 2020, the states of Arizona and Georgia were decided by ~10k votes. Wisconsin was decided by 20k votes. If Trump wins those states, the EC is 269-269. A tie means that Trump wins. Again, Republicans don't even try to win more votes - they can't. The issue with our democracy is the popular vote gap is growing. In future elections, Democrats will likely have to win by larger and larger margins in the national popular vote in order to win elections, which simply isn't possible. If you're interested in the political Science behind this, I can link a few articles and opinion pieces. 1 1 Link to comment
Lorewarn Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Even if all you've said were true, here is the kicker...it didn't work. That's a strange way of looking at it, I think. It's not only about "Trump is President". You're looking only at that one factor and ignoring all the others. There are more than zero members of our congress, our intelligence communities and our federal government who believe the big lie, and have been and are working to sidestep our electoral process. That's disconcerting. There's also a massive amount of our citizenry that believes it, and has had their trust in our systems completely and utterly eroded by the lying, misinformation, and propaganda. Russia (and Trump, whether together or separate) have also succeeded in ushering in a completely calcified hyper-partisanship to our country that has made the ability to get anything done next to impossible. I look at it this way. Imagine you owned the Hoover Dam, and someone led a coordinated effort of hundreds of people to destroy the dam. Your security ended up successfully catching and neutralizing the ring leader, and the dam hasn't been destroyed. But there's still hundreds of people on the dam with hammers and axes, chipping away. You wouldn't be focused on, "His plan failed! We're all good now." You would rightfully be focused on the still present threat. 2 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said: You see, in the United States we have something called the Electoral College. Under this system, Republicans don't even try to win more overall votes, they don't have too. In 2020, the states of Arizona and Georgia were decided by ~10k votes. Wisconsin was decided by 20k votes. If Trump wins those states, the EC is 269-269. A tie means that Trump wins. Again, Republicans don't even try to win more votes - they can't. The issue with our democracy is the popular vote gap is growing. In future elections, Democrats will likely have to win by larger and larger margins in the national popular vote in order to win elections, which simply isn't possible. If you're interested in the political Science behind this, I can link a few articles and opinion pieces. Thanks Mr PoliSci. You alleged that I thought Trump got 10 million more votes than his opponent. Please show me where I allegedly said any such thing, about either election. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Wait...? I thought Trump got beat by 10 million votes...he isn't the President. Why in the world would you, or any other Liberal be worried about him 3 years from now...? TDS indeed. NO, it's not TDS. It's the fact that he's still the leader of the party, is actively campaigning, is actively still convincing millions of followers about the Big Lie and there is a decent chance he's going to run again in 2024. And.....you don't expect people who oppose him to still be talking about him when he might run again and he's convincing people that the last election needed to be over turned....and Republicans have actively put on the books laws that make it easier for them to over turn an election? 2 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, Lorewarn said: That's a strange way of looking at it, I think. It's not only about "Trump is President". You're looking only at that one factor and ignoring all the others. There are more than zero members of our congress, our intelligence communities and our federal government who believe the big lie, and have been and are working to sidestep our electoral process. That's disconcerting. There's also a massive amount of our citizenry that believes it, and has had their trust in our systems completely and utterly eroded by the lying, misinformation, and propaganda. Russia (and Trump, whether together or separate) have also succeeded in ushering in a completely calcified hyper-partisanship to our country that has made the ability to get anything done next to impossible. I look at it this way. Imagine you owned the Hoover Dam, and someone led a coordinated effort of hundreds of people to destroy the dam. Your security ended up successfully catching and neutralizing the ring leader, and the dam hasn't been destroyed. But there's still hundreds of people on the dam with hammers and axes, chipping away. You wouldn't be focused on, "His plan failed! We're all good now." You would rightfully be focused on the still present threat. The hyperpartizanship is more due to Dems bloviating about Trump incessantly for the last 5 years with no tangible results, other than him not being re-elected. As to your dam adage, you might be right but it wouldn't be focused on him...(ring leader) Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: Thanks Mr PoliSci. You alleged that I thought Trump got 10 million more votes than his opponent. Please show me where I allegedly said any such thing, about either election. Apologies, I meant Biden. My original post was making an argument that Trump will win election, if he chooses to run. The systemic advantages - which are growing - mean Democrats are likely to be uncompetitive in future Presidential elections. 1 Link to comment
Dr. Strangelove Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: The hyperpartizanship is more due to Dems bloviating about Trump incessantly for the last 5 years with no tangible results, other than him not being re-elected. As to your dam adage, you might be right but it wouldn't be focused on him...(ring leader) Hyperpartizanship is mainly driven by educational attainment today. People with educations tend to see the world one way - full of inequality, they fear climate change, and are more liberal than ever. People without college educations distrust what they perceive to be elites. Elites are elected officials, the wealthy, institutions, etc. They often distrust those with college educations. Voters like this are trending towards being more and more conservative. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 That an adult can have lived through the last five years of trump and believe what we went through was because of the DEMOCRATS is insane. 4 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 32 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: The hyperpartizanship is more due to Dems bloviating about Trump incessantly for the last 5 years with no tangible results, other than him not being re-elected. As to your dam adage, you might be right but it wouldn't be focused on him...(ring leader) WHAT???? Trump himself is 110% hyper partisan and adds fuel to the fire every time he speaks. . 2 Link to comment
Lorewarn Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 40 minutes ago, DevoHusker said: The hyperpartizanship is more due to Dems bloviating about Trump incessantly for the last 5 years with no tangible results, other than him not being re-elected. I doubt there's anything that would change your mind on this but it's just not true. A lot of factors are not due to either party, some are equally due to both, and plenty lay at the feet of the Republican party. Every step along the way of partisanship the last 12-15 years, the right got there first. They were the first to have their own ideological news outlet, not the dems. They were the first to vow to make their #1 mission to obstruct the president and get him out of office, not the dems. They were the first to suggest narratives of the other side's leaders were illegitimate (birth certificate muslim B.S.), not the dems. They were the first to rile up their base with outright lies and double speak on non-existent issues (The War on Christmas, immigrants are taking yer jerbs, Obama's gonna take yer guns, global warming is a hoax). At best, both sides are equal in their "The fate of America is on the line" rhetoric, but only one side elected someone who routinely tried to take a sledgehammer to the norms and trust of our democratic system. They're the ones unjustly gerrymandering districts to retain/obtain disproportionate power. They're also the side full of people calling the press the enemy of the people, popularizing terms like "fake news", and denying results of our electoral process. 2 Link to comment
Recommended Posts