Do We Have the Talent We Need?

[suh_fan93]

25 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

We don't have the talent to beat someone like OSU.  We DO have the talent on the team to have three more wins this year if they were more mature and developed.  (Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota)

 

Well said.

[All Hail Herbie]

21 minutes ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

Well said.

 

Agreed on win totals.  CU, IU, Purdue all should have been wins in 2019 as well.  Again, like a broken record, poor fundamentals and lack of mental toughness were contributors.  

[Mavric]

53 minutes ago, gobiggergoredder said:

I'm on the fence on this.  The play was right in his face.  Step up and gain 2 more seconds.  Yeah, the tackle got beat, but he flat out ate it.

 

Martinez did step up in the pocket.  But Benhart was beaten so badly that the DE still got around the corner and back to Martinez.  If Benhart could have gotten just a little bit more of him he would have pushed him all the way past Martinez.

[southernoregonhusker]

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

Here is the point I was getting at:  I think we went through four years of most terrible recruiting on the offensive side of the ball. FOUR YEARS!!!  It's just a lot harder to recover than we thought, especially when a couple guys who could have been contributors didn't last.

 

Running Back Signees:

2015 - Ozigbo: had a very good senior year

2016 - Tre Bryant: limited contributions due to injuries which were known when he was recruited

2017 - Bradley: non-contributor

2018 - Washington: stud but didn't last a season; Bell: starter but left mid-season; Jones: non-contributor

 

Wide Receiver:

2015 - Morgan: stud; Alston: non-contributor

2016 - Spielman: very good player but left early; Grim: non-contributor

2017 - McQuitty, Johnson & Lindsey: non-contributors

2018 - McGriff, Williams, Woodyard & Hunt: basically non-contributors

 

Tight End:

2015 - Snyder: non-contributor

2016 - Stoll: solid starter; Engelhaupt: non-contributor

2017 - Allen: solid starter; Rafdal: non-contributor

2018 - LaGrone: non-contributor

 

Offensive Line:

2015 - Decker, Barnett, Gaylord: all non-contributors

2016 - MFarniok: solid starter; Wilson & Brokop: part-time starters; Raridon: non-contributor

2017 - Jaimes: excellent starter; Bando, Sichterman & Walker: non-contributors

2018 - Jurgens: solid starter; WFarniok: nothing yet

 

So in four years we recruited one RB who would make a meaningful contribution.  Two wide receivers who were pretty good but one left early.  Two solid starters at TE.  And three offensive linemen that didn't get recruited over.  That's it.  We couldn't even fill one complete starting lineup in four years of recruiting.  That's pathetic.  And that's mostly on Riley.  So when people say "quit blaming Riley" I think a lot of it still is his fault because he left barely anything for Frost to work with.

 

Now there are a lot of incompletes on the report card for the last two classes.  And you can say that the guys getting to play early may only be playing early because of the lack of older guys who are any good.  But here's what we know so far from the last two classes:

 

Running Back:

2019 - Mills: starter when healthy; Johnson & Thompkins: both in the mix this year

2020 - Scott: in the mix this year; Morrison: has been injured

 

Wide Receiver:

2019 - WRobinson: absolute stud; Nance, Chase & Houston: non-contributors; Manning: TBD

2020 - Betts: looks to be a stud; Brown: seeing the field as a true frosh; Nixon: injured; Fleming: saw the field but left; Martin: looking like a good contributor

 

Tight End:

2019 - Vokolek: solid contributor; Hickman: little contribution

2020 - None

 

Offensive Line:

2019 - Benhart & Piper: starting as a RSFrosh; Four others in the class

2020 - Two in the class

 

So there are four RBs who have been in the mix to some extent.  Two WRs look to be very good going forward plus two more that have been in the mix already;  Not much from the TE spot.  Two OL already starting.

 

So we've basically already seen as much production (in terms of number of guys) from the last two classes in the first 22 months on campus as we saw in the previous four classes in their entire careers.  

 

That doesn't mean the coaches get a complete pass.  But I don't think many realize what a total void this staff inherited.

How many complete recruiting classes did Riley have?  The main word being "complete?"  Remember, he was there for a short time.  Also, how many of Riley's guys left because they either didn't want to play for Frost or Frost didn't want them?  Lindsay?  McQuitty?  Spielman?  Spielman's loss looks awfully big right now and Gebbia is a better thrower than Martinez.  You talk about a void.  The word I would use is purge and that lands at the feet of Frost.  Mav,  you're the recruiting guy.  Is/are Riley's classe(s) rankings at lot worse than Frost's?

 

As I look at the second part of your post and Frost's guys, you spoke of guys in the mix and starters.  My answer is of course, somebody has to take the field.  The running-backs so far are non-contributors, except for Mills and he's mediocre.  He has 205 yards in 5 games.  Thompkins, Scott and Johnson have combined for 116 yards.  

 

I love, love, love Wondale.  Sadly, I sometimes wish he played for another top 25 team so we can see just how good he can be.  Betts has 12 catches for 131 yards.  If you add up all of the yards from our backs and receivers, do they add up to Spielman's sophomore year?  I haven't looked or added them up, but it's sad to think about.

 

The original question is do we have the talent we need?  Well, need for what?  Nattys?  Absolutely not.  Conference championships?  No way we can beat OSU.  West champs?  No.  Our boys are in last place.  Last.  You are what your record says you are.  We have virtually nobody who is drafted and those who are drafted are in the last few rounds.  We have three guys on offense that are electric with the ball in their hands, but they need help and they don't have enough of that yet.  Is Frost going to bring in that help?  I'm not confident he will.  

 

 

 

[Mavric]

21 minutes ago, southernoregonhusker said:

How many complete recruiting classes did Riley have?  The main word being "complete?"  Remember, he was there for a short time.  Also, how many of Riley's guys left because they either didn't want to play for Frost or Frost didn't want them?  Lindsay?  McQuitty?  Spielman?  Spielman's loss looks awfully big right now and Gebbia is a better thrower than Martinez.  You talk about a void.  The word I would use is purge and that lands at the feet of Frost.  Mav,  you're the recruiting guy.  Is/are Riley's classe(s) rankings at lot worse than Frost's?

 

It's impossible to know why some of those guys left.  Lindsay and McQuitty didn't play when Riley was still here so it's wishful thinking at best to think they were going to amount to much.  Spielman has a ton of talent but tried to lead a boycott of practice and then didn't do much of anything at TCU so I think it's fair to say that his priorities changed somewhere along the line.  You might like to think that Gebbia is a better thrower than Martinez but Martinez is completing 68.3% for 6.5 ypa while Gebbia is at 62.0% and 6.4 ypa and the defenses they've faced are nowhere near the same caliber so I think that's just you wanting it to be true more than anything.

 

Frost's classes have been noticeably better than Riley's.  Here are the stats - 2018 was the transition class.  Riley was basically recruiting at a mid-three star level.  Frost is recruiting at an upper three-star and pushing four-star.

 

Class Average Recruits (# 4*+)  

 15    .8616    21 (4)
 16    .8686    21 (5)
 17    .8781    20 (6)

 18    .8768    24 (6)

 19    .8850    27 (7)

 20    .8831    23 (9)

 

 

21 minutes ago, southernoregonhusker said:

As I look at the second part of your post and Frost's guys, you spoke of guys in the mix and starters.  My answer is of course, somebody has to take the field.  The running-backs so far are non-contributors, except for Mills and he's mediocre.  He has 205 yards in 5 games.  Thompkins, Scott and Johnson have combined for 116 yards.  

 

I think it's pretty hard to draw much from number of yards this year.  First, there haven't been as many games.  Second, they've pretty much all been hurt to some degree.  I don't think Mills is all that great.  He gets what the OL gets for him.  I think the other have more promise but they're young and have battled injuries.

 

21 minutes ago, southernoregonhusker said:

The original question is do we have the talent we need?  Well, need for what?  Nattys?  Absolutely not.  Conference championships?  No way we can beat OSU.  West champs?  No.  Our boys are in last place.  Last.  You are what your record says you are.  We have virtually nobody who is drafted and those who are drafted are in the last few rounds.  We have three guys on offense that are electric with the ball in their hands, but they need help and they don't have enough of that yet.  Is Frost going to bring in that help?  I'm not confident he will.  

 

Frost doesn't even have any draft-eligible players here yet.  The reason we haven't had many draft picks the last couple years is Riley was a failure at recruiting *and* development.  We were getting a decent about of Pelini recruits drafted.  It's gone way south since then.  Jury is still out on Frost but I think we will see that return in the coming years.

[Savage Husker]

13 minutes ago, southernoregonhusker said:

The word I would use is purge and that lands at the feet of Frost. 

I think this is one key point to all of this.

 

Not every transfer is equal. There are guys who stuck it out and got exponentially better - Lamar Jackson. 
 

There were mistakes made in year 1 that did set the program back, and I bet Frost is kicking himself for those. I know he’s made other mistakes, and he’ll continue to make mistakes.
 

I don’t think he had to strip the program down, but that is the result. The roster either needs a flood of JUCOs to win right away or let him get his guys and give him 5-6 years to cycle through a full transition. I think I remember reading how a former OL great encouraged him to avoid JUCO OL in order to create continuity? That’s on the coach to make that decision, not skirting that decision making - just something I find interesting. 
 

No matter who the coach is, this team is 2-3 seasons away from having a stable depth chart. It’s painful to watch and frustrating to know how consistently inconsistent they are. While I’m not happy with what I’m seeing, I do see young guys ball out, and that gets me optimistic for ‘22 - if the guys behind them develop and emerge to fill the depth chart.

 

I think he deserves the time to sort out the program, refine it, and learn from his mistakes to build it into what we are expecting and what he is proud of. It’s been such a dumpster fire that, personally, I can wait out the next 2-3 seasons before wanting the next placeholder. I am genuinely happy the off field drama is finally something we are not ashamed of, either. 

[admo]

iS "talent" described as competitiveness, athleticism, skill, gym strength, speed, quickness, footwork or HS ratings? 

 

I know we not talking about Football IQ, understanding concepts, a winning mentality, teamwork, roles and discipline. 

 

[krc1995]

4 minutes ago, admo said:. 

 

So again, what is this talent that we have enough of?

 

Coaching 

[admo]

15 minutes ago, krc1995 said:

Coaching 

 

Well as they say, cream rises to the top.

[Wunderkind]

We lack two things a QB that can throw the ball accurately down field and a pass rusher. At the other positions we have talent it's just young. For some reason Martinez has the yip's in passes over 10 yards. If we could throw down field it would open up everything else and the offense would look much better. The defense looks way better, but we can't get to the QB. If we had a pass rusher or two the defense would look great. We've tried to bring some pass rushers in but they haven't worked out.

[The Dude]

We probably don't have the talent to compete for a national title or anything like that.  We have far too much talent to excuse a 2-win season.

[MyBloodIsRed16]

15 hours ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Northwestern, year in and out? Really? Don't get me wrong they've had some good seasons, but "consistent winners," they are not. Fitzy gets fired at Nebraska potentially in 2011, 2013, 2014, 2016, and certainly 2019. 

 

2006	Pat Fitzgerald	4–8	2–6	T–8th
2007	Pat Fitzgerald	6–6	3–5	T–7th
2008	Pat Fitzgerald	9–4	5–3	T–4th	L Alamo
2009	Pat Fitzgerald	8–5	5–3	T–4th	L Outback
2010	Pat Fitzgerald	7–6	3–5	T–6th	L TicketCity
2011	Pat Fitzgerald	6–7	3–5	5th (Legends)	L Meineke Car Care Bowl of Texas
2012	Pat Fitzgerald	10–3	5–3	3rd (Legends)	W Gator	16	17
2013	Pat Fitzgerald	5–7	1–7	6th (Legends)
2014	Pat Fitzgerald	5–7	3–5	T–5th (West)
2015	Pat Fitzgerald	10–3	6–2	T–2nd (West)	L Outback	22	23
2016	Pat Fitzgerald	7–6	5–4	T–4th (West)	W Pinstripe
2017	Pat Fitzgerald	10–3	7–2	2nd (West)	W Music City	17	17
2018	Pat Fitzgerald	9–5	8–1	1st (West)	W Holiday	19	21
2019	Pat Fitzgerald	3–9	1–8	7th (West)

 

Looks like he has his best results every 3 or 4 years.  Probably when he had the right kids come in a recruiting class and are playing as jrs and snrs.  Maybe Nebraska will be 9-4 next year

[Packerhuskerfan]

I think most Nebraska fans would be content with Pat's records rights now.  9-4 in year 3, 5 bowl games in a row, then 4 in a row.

[Hilltop]

44 minutes ago, Packerhuskerfan said:

I think most Nebraska fans would be content with Pat's records rights now.  9-4 in year 3, 5 bowl games in a row, then 4 in a row.

That's not true.  A good percentage of our fan base will not be happy unless we are regularly competing for championships.  I personally like that about us.  

[Born N Bled Red]

1 hour ago, Packerhuskerfan said:

I think most Nebraska fans would be content with Pat's records rights now.  9-4 in year 3, 5 bowl games in a row, then 4 in a row.

 

Why would you feel like that when "most Nebraska fans," clearly weren't satisfied with these???? Heck- Riley made two bowl games in 3 years and went 9-4 in year 2! 

 

Frank Solich	9–4	5–3	2nd	Lost Holiday Bowl (Arizona) 23–20	19	20
	1999	12–1	7–1	1st	Won Fiesta Bowl (Tennessee) 31–21	3	2
	2000	10–2	6–2	T–1st[A 5]	Won Alamo Bowl (Northwestern) 66–17	8	7
	2001	11–2	7–1	T–1st[A 6]	Lost Rose Bowl (Miami) 37–14	8	7
	2002	7–7	3–5	4th	Lost Independence Bowl (Ole Miss) 27–23
	2003	10–3	5–3	2nd	Won Alamo Bowl (Michigan State) 17–3[A 7]	19	18

 

2004	Bill Callahan	5–6	3–5	T–3rd
2005		8–4	4–4	T–2nd	Won Alamo Bowl (Michigan) 32–28	24	24
2006		9–5	6–2	1st	Lost Cotton Bowl Classic (Auburn) 17–14
2007		5–7	2–6	T–5th

 

2008	Bo Pelini	9–4	5–3	T–1st[A 8]	Won Gator Bowl (Clemson) 26–21
2009		10–4	6–2	1st	Won Holiday Bowl (Arizona) 33–0	14	14
2010		10–4	6–2	T–1st	Lost Holiday Bowl (Washington) 19–7	20	19
Big Ten Conference (Legends Division) (2011–2013)
2011	Bo Pelini	9–4	5–3	3rd	Lost Capital One Bowl (South Carolina) 30–13	24	24
2012		10–4	7–1	1st	Lost Capital One Bowl (Georgia) 45–31	25	23
2013		9–4	5–3	T–2nd	Won Gator Bowl (Georgia) 24–19		25

 

2015	Mike Riley	6–7	3–5	4th	Won Foster Farms Bowl (UCLA) 37–29
2016		9–4	6–3	T–2nd	Lost Music City Bowl (Tennessee) 38–24
2017		4–8	3–6	5th