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Kind of funny how things develop.  Two months ago people were sure that Chins was terrible and McCaffrey needed to be our starting QB.  Weird how things you think you know can turn out to be totally w

In a nutshell:    Butler & A Will are not surprised as they felt that Riley players were blamed to be a problem & pushed out. Also saying that when back to back years you lose your t

We found what the haters are going to latch onto guys!      Dude writes a heartfelt reasoning but a reporter uses a tag line to get readers and that’s what we latch onto!       Pathetic

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1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

So that's two noncontributing 4-stars to enter the portal in the past couple days.

 

 See Kids,  this is why we don't pay attention to recruiting rankings.  

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1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

Riley/Williams/Walters combined to recruit two WR contributors in five years.  Neither completed their eligibility at Nebraska.

 

That's what this staff has had to work with in their first 2.5-3 years.  I do feel like that has changed.

He inherited a crap situation sure...but let’s not lie and say that he’s recruited the offense super well. 

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Honest question. Had Frost tried to adjust to the B1G from the jump, would we further along then we are now.  I agree with recruiting for one scheme and then another (or body type) has hurt us.  I realize it also takes a while to get bigger/faster/stronger.  I just wish that Frost realized (and maybe he did) that the magic that was the UCF, in its entirety, would not work in the B1G.  And that could very well be the case with the long contract, constant talk about the re-build etc....

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1 hour ago, lo country said:

Honest question. Had Frost tried to adjust to the B1G from the jump, would we further along then we are now.  I agree with recruiting for one scheme and then another (or body type) has hurt us.  I realize it also takes a while to get bigger/faster/stronger.  I just wish that Frost realized (and maybe he did) that the magic that was the UCF, in its entirety, would not work in the B1G.  And that could very well be the case with the long contract, constant talk about the re-build etc....

 

I think way to much is made of this because people don't like the results.  It is way more about having the athletes to run the offense than it is about changing what type of offense is run.  Our offense is not that much different than what Ohio State runs.  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Penn State runs (though it wasn't as effective last year).  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Indiana, Purdue, or Minnesota run.  They are pretty competitive in the B1G.

 

The problem isn't that the offense won't work in the B1G.  It has been shown that it will work.  Other teams have shown that it will work.  We were a very respectable #25 in the country in total offense in Frost's first year here - when he still had enough Pelini recruits left to field a legitimate B1G offense.  We should have been absolutely terrible that first year before he could adjust anything if the problem was he needed to adjust to the B1G.

 

The problem is we didn't recruit one complete set of offensive players in a four-year span.  We only recruited two WRs that contributed in a five-year span.  We only recruited one serviceable RB in a four-year span.  We only recruited three legitimate OL in a four-year span (maybe four if Sichterman pans out) and one of those started out as a TE.  You simply can't strike out that much and expect to field a legitimate Power 5 offense.

 

Frost does carry a little bit of the blame for not turning it around a little faster but he was hindered by some bad luck (or whatever you want to call it).  He managed to pull two RBs who were legitimate talents in two weeks in Washington and Bell but both turned out to be head cases.  Then it definitely hurt that he struck out on WRs in his first full class.  The rest of his first full class looks to be filling in nicely, it's just taken them awhile to get on the field.  Wan'Dale was a legitimate WR but he clan wasn't patient enough for the rest of the offense to catch up.  Johnson and Thompkins still have possibilities at RB.  Piper and Benhart were already starters last year and Banks looks to be in the mix this year.  Plus McCaffrety was a great chance to take on the heels of Martinez.  But all of those guys were only into their second year here last year and didn't get anything resembling a normal off-season.  That's basically as many contributors out of one class - in two years here - as we got out of the previous four combined.

 

Frost had to change his offense because of the personnel he had.  UCF led the nation in deep throws in 2017.  That's been severely lacking the last two years because we haven't had the receivers to make it work.  And when you aren't a threat to throw it down the field, there's not much room to open up everything else.

 

So Frost definitely has adjusted his offense.  But not because of the B1G.  Hopefully it's back closer to what it's supposed to look like this year.

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18 minutes ago, Mavric said:

So Frost definitely has adjusted his offense.  But not because of the B1G.  Hopefully it's back closer to what it's supposed to look like this year.

Right, and because of this the B1G will have to adjust to us. 

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48 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

I think way to much is made of this because people don't like the results.  It is way more about having the athletes to run the offense than it is about changing what type of offense is run.  Our offense is not that much different than what Ohio State runs.  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Penn State runs (though it wasn't as effective last year).  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Indiana, Purdue, or Minnesota run.  They are pretty competitive in the B1G.

 

The problem isn't that the offense won't work in the B1G.  It has been shown that it will work.  Other teams have shown that it will work.  We were a very respectable #25 in the country in total offense in Frost's first year here - when he still had enough Pelini recruits left to field a legitimate B1G offense.  We should have been absolutely terrible that first year before he could adjust anything if the problem was he needed to adjust to the B1G.

 

The problem is we didn't recruit one complete set of offensive players in a four-year span.  We only recruited two WRs that contributed in a five-year span.  We only recruited one serviceable RB in a four-year span.  We only recruited three legitimate OL in a four-year span (maybe four if Sichterman pans out) and one of those started out as a TE.  You simply can't strike out that much and expect to field a legitimate Power 5 offense.

 

Frost does carry a little bit of the blame for not turning it around a little faster but he was hindered by some bad luck (or whatever you want to call it).  He managed to pull two RBs who were legitimate talents in two weeks in Washington and Bell but both turned out to be head cases.  Then it definitely hurt that he struck out on WRs in his first full class.  The rest of his first full class looks to be filling in nicely, it's just taken them awhile to get on the field.  Wan'Dale was a legitimate WR but he clan wasn't patient enough for the rest of the offense to catch up.  Johnson and Thompkins still have possibilities at RB.  Piper and Benhart were already starters last year and Banks looks to be in the mix this year.  Plus McCaffrety was a great chance to take on the heels of Martinez.  But all of those guys were only into their second year here last year and didn't get anything resembling a normal off-season.  That's basically as many contributors out of one class - in two years here - as we got out of the previous four combined.

 

Frost had to change his offense because of the personnel he had.  UCF led the nation in deep throws in 2017.  That's been severely lacking the last two years because we haven't had the receivers to make it work.  And when you aren't a threat to throw it down the field, there's not much room to open up everything else.

 

So Frost definitely has adjusted his offense.  But not because of the B1G.  Hopefully it's back closer to what it's supposed to look like this year.

I don't like the results. You are 100% spot on.  I do think that Frost has changed the O to meet the B1G.  Going after bigger OL.  Going after bigger receivers with a larger block radius.  RB's who can bang between the tackles.  He went after what he wanted the 1st 2 years.  Smaller track star receivers.  Shifty Duck R or whatever that position is.  The B1G simply fed him his lunch.  And I hate that. He's adjusting.  And rightfully so.  I think some of his concepts will remain the same, but as you mentioned (having B1G style players) we will have much more success.

 

OSU is and will always be the B1G.  They are loaded with blue chip kids. Whatever system they run will work.  And comparing us to Indiana, Minny and Purdue is not really a resounding claim to the acumen of Frost and Co.  

 

I'll agree our recruiting thus far has been horrific.  Too many misses.  Head cases, non-contributors, transfers etc.....When we are trying to rebuild that is really hard to overcome.  

 

Even with my negative posts, I do see some positives.  I agree with the OL.  They look to be solid and have gotten some depth and guys to stay put.  The TE's look good (better w/Fidone) and WR's have a few guys who played and some potential.  Concerned about the RB's TBH.  I really like Sevy and Yant.  His size is intriguing.  I know this is about the O, but I have to give props to Chin and the D staff.  They have gotten some good depth and quality across all 3 levels (again I'd like it better if Honas was a go).  The aggressive play of Williams and CTB got the younger DB's some meaningful snaps:D.  The fact so many came back for another year speaks volumes IMO.  Not to the degree, but I am hoping for the same passion exhibited by Peter and Wistrom (Peters/Winston/Frasier).  The D culture has taken effect and I think we see it win 1-2 games this year.  They'll have to be solid out of the gate until the O catches up.

 

lastly, I think having Lubick calling plays (split w/Frost) should help as well.  

 

This staff came to NU after 2 years together.  And came into the B1G with some legitimate stromg coaches, coordinators and staff.  There was (and is) bound to be learning curves.  The B1G is just unforgiving and a hard place to learn on the fly.  Frost is learning.  And that's a huge step.

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1 hour ago, lo country said:

lastly, I think having Lubick calling plays (split w/Frost) should help as well.  

I also see this as a positive.  Take some pressure off HCSF to allow him to focus more on in-game management.  
 

I think Lubick is a good one and hopefully we can hang onto him for a while. 

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1 hour ago, lo country said:

He went after what he wanted the 1st 2 years.  Smaller track star receivers.  Shifty Duck R or whatever that position is. 

 

Do you have anything to back up your claim that Frost wanted or preferred smaller players over larger ones, as opposed to just taking what he could get in those first couple years? If not, your point is BS.

 

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OSU is and will always be the B1G.  They are loaded with blue chip kids. Whatever system they run will work.

 

Put Michigan in that statement and it becomes obvious that it's bulls#!t. They're just as 'B1G' as Ohio State, and loaded with blue chip kids, but haven't exactly been setting the world on fire in the last couple decades. (Their last conference championship was only a few years after ours. Michigan State has had three Big Ten championships since Michigan's last one.)

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1 hour ago, lo country said:

Going after bigger OL.  

 

I think this is only true in that he was "going after bigger OL" than Riley did.  He was always recruiting huge OL.  Bryce Benhart was in his first class at 6-9.  So were Banks (6-7), Fritzsche (6-7) and Lynn (6-6).  That's pretty much been his MO since he got here.

 

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Going after bigger receivers with a larger block radius.  

 

I think this could be true but I also think a lot of it is just different than what Riley recruited.  Frost's first class of Chase, Nance and Houston were known for their speed but it's not like they were Wan'Dale's size either.  They were all 6-0 or 6-1.  Not huge but not small either.  They were recruiting David Bell (6-1) pretty hard.  They were after Charles Njoku (6-5) really hard.  Also Marcus Washington (6-2).  We had a bunch of offers out to 6-3 or 6-4 guys.  Just because we didn't land any doesn't mean we weren't after them.  It might be more of a focus because we haven't had any of them but guys like Will Nixon are still going to have a place in this offense.

 

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RB's who can bang between the tackles.  

 

Again, I don't think this is as much of a change as you're making it out to be.  He's always recruited different kinds of backs.  In the limited time he had in the 2018 class he got one speedster (Washington, 190) and one bigger back (Bell, 200).  The next year it was again one a fast back (Johnson, 173) and a big back (Mills, 227) plus one in the middle (Thompkins, 195).  Same in 2020 with Morrison being more of a speed back and Scott being the power lifter checking in at over 200 pounds.

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13 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

I think way to much is made of this because people don't like the results.  It is way more about having the athletes to run the offense than it is about changing what type of offense is run.  Our offense is not that much different than what Ohio State runs.  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Penn State runs (though it wasn't as effective last year).  Are they having to adjust to the B1G?  Our offense isn't a lot different than what Indiana, Purdue, or Minnesota run.  They are pretty competitive in the B1G.

 

The problem isn't that the offense won't work in the B1G.  It has been shown that it will work.  Other teams have shown that it will work.  We were a very respectable #25 in the country in total offense in Frost's first year here - when he still had enough Pelini recruits left to field a legitimate B1G offense.  We should have been absolutely terrible that first year before he could adjust anything if the problem was he needed to adjust to the B1G.

 

The problem is we didn't recruit one complete set of offensive players in a four-year span.  We only recruited two WRs that contributed in a five-year span.  We only recruited one serviceable RB in a four-year span.  We only recruited three legitimate OL in a four-year span (maybe four if Sichterman pans out) and one of those started out as a TE.  You simply can't strike out that much and expect to field a legitimate Power 5 offense.

 

Frost does carry a little bit of the blame for not turning it around a little faster but he was hindered by some bad luck (or whatever you want to call it).  He managed to pull two RBs who were legitimate talents in two weeks in Washington and Bell but both turned out to be head cases.  Then it definitely hurt that he struck out on WRs in his first full class.  The rest of his first full class looks to be filling in nicely, it's just taken them awhile to get on the field.  Wan'Dale was a legitimate WR but he clan wasn't patient enough for the rest of the offense to catch up.  Johnson and Thompkins still have possibilities at RB.  Piper and Benhart were already starters last year and Banks looks to be in the mix this year.  Plus McCaffrety was a great chance to take on the heels of Martinez.  But all of those guys were only into their second year here last year and didn't get anything resembling a normal off-season.  That's basically as many contributors out of one class - in two years here - as we got out of the previous four combined.

 

Frost had to change his offense because of the personnel he had.  UCF led the nation in deep throws in 2017.  That's been severely lacking the last two years because we haven't had the receivers to make it work.  And when you aren't a threat to throw it down the field, there's not much room to open up everything else.

 

So Frost definitely has adjusted his offense.  But not because of the B1G.  Hopefully it's back closer to what it's supposed to look like this year.

 

I don't understand the "this offense doesn't work in the Big Ten" stuff. It's already proven it has; his first year when he two good receivers and a good back and an experienced line the offense was ranked top 25 nationally and moved the ball on a lot of good defenses (with a true freshman QB). There have needed to be some tweaks as any good coach would make to a new situation, but the offense's lack of success the past couple years has been far more about not having skill position players who would start at many other B1G schools than it has about any sort of scheme or player archetype.

 

And you need all sorts of backs and receivers who are good at different things to be a successful offense. Bigger receivers were a glaring need so they've been the priority, but we're also still recruiting a lot of small fast-as-hell type of guys.

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20 hours ago, lo country said:

Honest question. Had Frost tried to adjust to the B1G from the jump, would we further along then we are now.  I agree with recruiting for one scheme and then another (or body type) has hurt us.  I realize it also takes a while to get bigger/faster/stronger.  I just wish that Frost realized (and maybe he did) that the magic that was the UCF, in its entirety, would not work in the B1G.  And that could very well be the case with the long contract, constant talk about the re-build etc....

Has Frost changed schemes?

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I don't know if any team messes up as much as we do. One good play, then a false start, a 5yd pass in the flat followed by a sack, INT, holding call or fumble. I'm sure we've had some great plays called but we'll never know cause we couldn't get out of our own way. Until players start accepting accountability for the dumbs things occurring, it's not going to change. 

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6 hours ago, J-MAGIC said:

 

I don't understand the "this offense doesn't work in the Big Ten" stuff. It's already proven it has; his first year when he two good receivers and a good back and an experienced line the offense was ranked top 25 nationally and moved the ball on a lot of good defenses (with a true freshman QB). There have needed to be some tweaks as any good coach would make to a new situation, but the offense's lack of success the past couple years has been far more about not having skill position players who would start at many other B1G schools than it has about any sort of scheme or player archetype.

 

And you need all sorts of backs and receivers who are good at different things to be a successful offense. Bigger receivers were a glaring need so they've been the priority, but we're also still recruiting a lot of small fast-as-hell type of guys.

I agree.

 

I would guess that no matter who we hired as coach, there would be tweaks to their offense from year one to year four.  That happens in pretty much every program across the country.  Things change.  Players change.  Coaches have new ideas to work in.

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