Trump Impeachment # 2

[Enhance]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

The defense that you obviously have fallen for is total BS.  

  

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

You always make it personal and go back to the old saying of Trump is my God or Trump is my leader and it is just childish behavior.  What are you 13?  

Please take this to the Shed. This isn't the place for it.

[Enhance]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

  party politics suck. 
 

 

Easy scapegoat for McConnel and other R's. Condemn Trump's actions without actually taking a stand against it. But, I don't know what we expect TBH. I truthfully don't believe this outcome would've been any different had roles been reversed and this was a Democratic president being impeached. R's and D's routinely take whatever argument best fits their agenda, regardless of how hypocritical it makes them seem (note the recent Supreme Court Justice that was hammered through).

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Easy scapegoat for McConnel and other R's. Condemn Trump's actions without actually taking a stand against it. But, I don't know what we expect TBH. I truthfully don't believe this outcome would've been any different had roles been reversed and this was a Democratic president being impeached. R's and D's routinely take whatever argument best fits their agenda, regardless of how hypocritical it makes them seem (note the recent Supreme Court Justice that was hammered through).

The impeachment charge was the mistake.  It wasn’t an incitement issue no matter how much everyone wishes it was.  It was an incompetence issue after the riots started of not doing what he needed to do quickly to stop things.  Dems messes it up from the beginning.  Can’t then blame their mistake on the Republicans.   

[Decoy73]

The biggest takeaway IMO, is that a precedent has been set, firmly, by Trumps two impeachments and "acquittals".  

 

How, possibly, can Congress or anyone for that matter, hold a sitting president accountable going forward?  Unless they have a supermajority, they can't.  Period.  It's no longer about the checks and balances from the Constitution and doing what is right, it's only about numbers.  You either have them or you don't.  

 

President's with favorable congressional numbers will get away with all kinds of things going forward.  What's stopping them.  No accountability to Congress, to Americans, none.  Just a re-election every 4th year and if you loose, you could follow Trump's playbook and cry foul and claim fraud--it won't work, but think of all the damage it will inflict on the country.  That'll show em.  Kind of like a parting shot.  

 

Precedent.  Impeachment conviction, only with a 2/3 majority?  Good luck with that.  This makes Clinton's impeachment laughable.  Lying under oath?  Who cares.  Heck, a POTUS no longer has to even go under oath if he/she chooses not to as long as they got the numbers.  Nixon and Watergate?  Peanuts.  Just another day at the office for the Donald.

 

I hope you're happy--All you Trump supporters out there.  Our nation has and will continue to suffer consequences from his behavior.  

[commando]

13 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

The impeachment charge was the mistake.  It wasn’t an incitement issue no matter how much everyone wishes it was.  It was an incompetence issue after the riots started of not doing what he needed to do quickly to stop things.  Dems messes it up from the beginning.  Can’t then blame their mistake on the Republicans.   

the republicans would never impeach him no matter what. trump did call those people to washington.....on jan 6th...for a reason.    he and his cronies fired up the crowd for a couple months with his "stop the steal" rhetoric.   when they got there they listened to trump and his cronies lambast pence and the dems for certifying the results. they told the crowd to fight for their country, that they wouldn't keep their country if they didn't fight.  then he told them to march to the capital and then he threw in the "Peacefully protest" disclaimer.     the entire body of work was an attempt to incite violence and it worked...and his disclaimer was proudly hailed when his insurrection failed.   there were 7 republicans who saw through the BS and voted to convict.   43 RINOs voted to acquit 

[Enhance]

11 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

The impeachment charge was the mistake.  It wasn’t an incitement issue no matter how much everyone wishes it was.  It was an incompetence issue after the riots started of not doing what he needed to do quickly to stop things.  Dems messes it up from the beginning.  Can’t then blame their mistake on the Republicans.   

What do you think our elected officials should've done differently? (sorry if you've answered this elsewhere before)

 

Impeachment itself viewed under this lens will almost always be a 'mistake' because neither R's or D's will likely ever concede enough to convict a POTUS from their party.

[DevoHusker]

 

[Ratt Mhule]

1 hour ago, NebraskaHarry said:

Welp, it's over. But then again, it's not over. It'll be interesting to see what direction our country goes from here. Hopefully, it can retain some of morals and respect, even when people like Trump might not (since he was just acquitted) be held accountable for heinous behavior. We now have to hope he doesn't grow even more powerful from his followers who feed off his lies and mind games to crack at the foundations of our country's democracy and decency. I pray Trump will fade off into insignificance. However, I fear the worst from the likes of individuals who have been emboldened by the actions of Trump to try and seize opportunities of power and influence. 

95% of the party voted for Trump. Republican lawmakers still worship the guy like a deity. I get what you are saying about hoping he will fade off, but its his party. He is the leader. The base wants him or someone like him. My guess, he announces his 2024 run for president no later than May. 

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, Enhance said:

What do you think our elected officials should've done differently? (sorry if you've answered this elsewhere before)

 

Impeachment itself viewed under this lens will almost always be a 'mistake' because neither R's or D's will likely ever concede enough to convict a POTUS from their party.

Not have the Impeachment charge be Incitement.  That wasn’t the offense and it was easily disproven by the defense.  The offense was Trump not doing what he needed to do after the riot started to quell the riot. 

[Decoy73]

13 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I doubt that you would agree with Nikki Haley or any other Trump voter on what counts as being "wronged."  It's undisputed that 'Big Tech' censored social media and several state governors changed the voting rules in favor of massive mail ins.  If you ask any R if those two alone  counts as "stealing the election" they will say yes.

I probably wouldn't agree, you are correct.  But, I'm wouldn't be energetic enough to argue it with them.  The R's and D's will always, in some way, think their side is being wronged.  I don't think that will ever change--so I try not to invest too much energy in worrying about it.  

 

So yes, many R's will consider those things you mentioned as being unfair.  Just like many D's will consider voter suppression tactics and a disproportionate electoral college representation unfair.  It will continue to go round and round, ever year.  Many election results will not be accepted because of this and the precedent of election integrity denial that Trump is largely responsible for setting.  

 

Meanwhile, Putin and Jinping are sitting back and smiling at our election disarray.  That is what bugs me the most.  We're too busy fighting with each other, than coming together to make sure we stay ahead of Russia and China.

[Enhance]

9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Not have the Impeachment charge be Incitement.  That wasn’t the offense and it was easily disproven by the defense.  The offense was Trump not doing what he needed to do after the riot started to quell the riot. 

Interesting. IMO, I think he incited violence against the U.S. government. It's one of those things where you either a) incite or b) don't incite. There isn't a lot of middle ground with something like that, and Trump did more to cause Jan. 6 than he did to stop or prevent it. Nothing the defense said in the last several days convinced me otherwise. He was going to be acquitted anyways. But, it looks like we may have to agree to disagree on some of that.

 

What do you think they would've/should've charged him with that would qualify under 'high crimes and misdemeanors?'

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, Enhance said:

 

What do you think they would've/should've charged him with that would qualify under 'high crimes and misdemeanors

I don’t know from a legal standpoint and wouldn’t want to throw out a guess. I’m sure it would throw 10 other people on here into a rage coming from me (not you included).  

I will just say IMO, there was no incitement that hasn’t gone past what other politicians have said in the past.  And the part of this that got me most sideways with Trump was him not doing everything he could immediately to stop the riot behavior once it started.  Whether that was calling in the guard ASAP, physically going down there asking people to stop, tweeting forceful messages asking people to stop.  

[Archy1221]

 

 

[Archy1221]

Incitement charge coming soon for Dems?

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Not have the Impeachment charge be Incitement.  That wasn’t the offense and it was easily disproven by the defense.  The offense was Trump not doing what he needed to do after the riot started to quell the riot. 

 

No, the problem was Donald Trump saying repeatedly since 2016 that any election he didn't win would be fraudulent, then trying to dismantle the U.S Post Office to undermine mail-in voting, then overtly telling the Proud Boys to "stand by" should he lose in 2020, then doubling down when he lost, insisting his "landslide" election had been stolen, then filing 62 lawsuits against the U.S. election process and producing zero evidence resulting in every case  being thrown out, then leaning heavily on state election officials in swing states to find him votes by any means necessary, then threatening his own vice-president to take action that was unprecedented, unwarranted, and unconstitutional, then calling for his loyalists to show up in force at the typically ceremonial Electoral College certification on January 6 to demand that his insane demands be met. 

 

He would have been impeachable if January 6 had never happened. It's just sad his most violent followers and cowardly enablers can't admit the man was horribly wrong from the very beginning.