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Trump Impeachment # 2


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13 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

The danger is when government officials use their power to go after their political opponents.  We used to recognize this as 3rd World Banana Republic garbage.  Now it seems to a popular idea on the left. 

Yep....they should do it just like Trump.  Organize a mob and tell them to go attack the government and the politicians they don’t like.  
 

That’s how civilized countries do it.  

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13 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

It absolutely was, which makes the obstinance and consternation from some people surrounding what happened so baffling.

 

Does Jan. 6th happen if Trump acts like a professional and rational adult following the election? Does it happen if he questions the results but approaches the situation with grace and humility? Does Jan. 6th happen if he doesn't travel the country and rally his support base to believe in false election fraud nonsense, appealing to their emotions and making it seem like America is under threat of being destroyed? Does it happen if Trump isn't Trump?

 

The answer is no. It does not happen.

 

People can bandy words and make claims about the constitutional veracity of his impeachment all day long, but Trump is the single most responsible person for what happened Jan. 6th.

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8 minutes ago, Enhance said:

It absolutely was, which makes the obstinance and consternation from some people surrounding what happened so baffling.

 

Does Jan. 6th happen if Trump acts like a professional and rational adult following the election? Does it happen if he questions the results but approaches the situation with grace and humility? Does Jan. 6th happen if he doesn't travel the country and rally his support base to believe in false election fraud nonsense, appealing to their emotions and making it seem like America is under threat of being destroyed? Does it happen if Trump isn't Trump?

 

The answer is no. It does not happen.

 

People can bandy words and make claims about the constitutional veracity of his impeachment all day long, but Trump is the single most responsible person for what happened Jan. 6th.

 

It's odd, because the evidence was overwhelming. trump was the architect and prime mover of events on 1/6/21. There's no way to dispute that, but here we are, dealing with those people.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Enhance said:

It absolutely was, which makes the obstinance and consternation from some people surrounding what happened so baffling.

 

Does Jan. 6th happen if Trump acts like a professional and rational adult following the election? Does it happen if he questions the results but approaches the situation with grace and humility? Does Jan. 6th happen if he doesn't travel the country and rally his support base to believe in false election fraud nonsense, appealing to their emotions and making it seem like America is under threat of being destroyed? Does it happen if Trump isn't Trump?

 

The answer is no. It does not happen.

 

People can bandy words and make claims about the constitutional veracity of his impeachment all day long, but Trump is the single most responsible person for what happened Jan. 6th.

 

His false claims of vote fraud being lofty enough to sway the election were not the core reason of the Capitol riot, but I can appreciate your train of thought here.   If he were a standard suit that didn't say brash s#!t he never would have amassed the following he has, ergo the Capitol riot never happens.  But it did.

 

We could also play 7 degrees to Kevin Bacon and say if Nancy never rips up the speech it doesn't happen because civil unrest never gets to a boiling point.  But these are unfortunately hypotheticals.  I don't disagree, Trump's wilful appeal to his constituency is unique enough to say it's his fault.  But his words were the evidence and the evidence was weak.  I'm in the camp of he knows his words have inadvertent reactions making them intended.  But I don't think this instance was worthy of an impeachment or a conviction.  I know that's not a popular opinion.

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10 minutes ago, Redux said:

His false claims of vote fraud being lofty enough to sway the election were not the core reason of the Capitol riot, but I can appreciate your train of thought here.   If he were a standard suit that didn't say brash s#!t he never would have amassed the following he has, ergo the Capitol riot never happens.  But it did.

 

We could also play 7 degrees to Kevin Bacon and say if Nancy never rips up the speech it doesn't happen because civil unrest never gets to a boiling point.  But these are unfortunately hypotheticals.  I don't disagree, Trump's wilful appeal to his constituency is unique enough to say it's his fault.  But his words were the evidence and the evidence was weak.  I'm in the camp of he knows his words have inadvertent reactions making them intended.  But I don't think this instance was worthy of an impeachment or a conviction.  I know that's not a popular opinion.

No offense intended, but I don't get this. This kind of sounds like a soft-handed way of saying it's Trump's fault without actually saying it's Trump's fault, and that's one of my biggest issues with this whole thing.

 

We know Trump is at fault. We know his words, his decisions, and his propaganda helped cause the Capitol Riot. And I think we also all know, deep down, that Trump's the single biggest reason it happened. His words, his actions, his choices. And I don't think I'm being bombastic or hyperbolic in claiming this.

 

So I get what you're trying to say here, but I think it's largely excuse-making. We all seem willing to acknowledge Trump is at fault but only to the point that he avoids repercussions.

 

I mean, what should Trump be held responsible for then? What punishment is fair to someone that behaved as he did? Right now, the message we're sending as a country is 'nothing.'

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6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Anyone predicting 2024 is just blowing smoke.  No election has been transparent 4 years removed. 

 

That is just a false equivalence.  No D POTUS has suffered the equivalent of the Russia Hoax, fake Impeachment, ex post facto Impeachment, or DAs harassing the family; not for lack of pretexts.  When Biden nominates someone for SCOTUS, there will be no sudden emergence of  sexual assault allegation from a somewhat crazy person.  Need I go on?

 

Agree that no prediction holds any water at this point.

 

But are you going to tell me the proper gentlemen of the GOP would never harass, bully, or dig up ancient and feeble charges to undermine a Democrat adversary?  Please.

 

Hillary Clinton never held the office, and she woke up to this level of witch hunt every day for 30 years.

 

Also, Donald Trump asked for it. I mean he literally asked for it. Every attack that has come his way can be traced to an over-wrought, self-serving, thin-skinned attack or misdeed Trump initiated himself in his very public 40 years of being a notorious a$$h@!e.  

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trump even changed the date of his rally to directly correspond to the date Pence/congress certified the Electoral College results. That wasn't an accident, and any attempt to explain away trump's actions is in really poor taste considering the deaths that resulted from the attempted insurrection. 

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14 minutes ago, Enhance said:

No offense intended, but I don't get this. This kind of sounds like a soft-handed way of saying it's Trump's fault without actually saying it's Trump's fault, and that's one of my biggest issues with this whole thing.

 

We know Trump is at fault. We know his words, his decisions, and his propaganda helped cause the Capitol Riot. And I think we also all know, deep down, that Trump's the single biggest reason it happened. His words, his actions, his choices. And I don't think I'm being bombastic or hyperbolic in claiming this.

 

So I get what you're trying to say here, but I think it's largely excuse-making. We all seem willing to acknowledge Trump is at fault but only to the point that he avoids repercussions.

 

I mean, what should Trump be held responsible for then? What punishment is fair to someone that behaved as he did? Right now, the message we're sending as a country is 'nothing.'

I would add that your pinning the blame on Trump, but the reality is that it's the entire Republican party and the 74 million people who live in an alternate universe who is at fault. They spent years enabling this behavior, we all saw this coming. 

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I would add that your pinning the blame on Trump, but the reality is that it's the entire Republican party and the 74 million people who live in an alternate universe who is at fault. They spent years enabling this behavior, we all saw this coming. 

I think my only qualification on this is that a lot of Republicans AND Democrats are smitten to their president. Many of them act and behave like plebs to whatever words and actions the president says. If Trump isn't Trump, I don't think we're sitting here worrying about QAnon conspiracies and other radicalist nonsense flying around the Republican party.

 

Don't get me wrong - I think a lot of Republicans and voters enabled Trump. No question. But, I also think there's a huge measure of complacency and complicity inside a president's support group. We can blame some of those people for being ignorant, but Trump had the reigns.

 

If a queen ant leads her colony into a trap, the ants were just going where the queen wanted them to go.

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Here is the summary of the article and tweet below.  The cult of Trump hits back at family members who aren't in the cult.

 

Quote

 

GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger's family DISOWNS him for opposing Trump: 11 relatives sign handwritten letter calling him a 'disappointment to God and Lou Dobbs' and a member of the 'devil's army' after he backed impeachment

  • The letter was penned to Kinzinger on January 8 by his cousin Lisa Otto and 10 other members of his family, calling him a 'disappointment' and 'embarrassment'
  • The note came just two days after the House Republican, of Illinois, called on Trump to be removed from office, following the Capitol riots on January 6
  • He was accused by his family of 'joining the devil's army' - specified as being 'Democrats and the fake news media' - for publicly opposing Trump
  • They also said they were embarrassed of him for losing the respect of a cohort of Fox News hosts, such as Lou Dobbs, in addition to radio host Rush Limbaugh
  • Kinzinger said he was unbothered by the letter, insisting the family members behind have been 'brainwashed' by conservative churches
  • The 43-year-old was only one of three House Republicans who voted both to impeach Trump and also strip Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee posts

 

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9264005/Kinzinger-releases-letter-family-saying-joined-devils-army-backing-Trumps-impeachment.html

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Enhance said:

It absolutely was, which makes the obstinance and consternation from some people surrounding what happened so baffling.

 

Does Jan. 6th happen if Trump acts like a professional and rational adult following the election? Does it happen if he questions the results but approaches the situation with grace and humility? Does Jan. 6th happen if he doesn't travel the country and rally his support base to believe in false election fraud nonsense, appealing to their emotions and making it seem like America is under threat of being destroyed? Does it happen if Trump isn't Trump?

 

The answer is no. It does not happen.

 

People can bandy words and make claims about the constitutional veracity of his impeachment all day long, but Trump is the single most responsible person for what happened Jan. 6th.

Ok let’s play the game all the way through.  Does Jan 6th happen if the people in DC protest “peacefully and patriotically” like Trump said in his speech?  
 

You all are fixed on a non-existent “crime” of incitement.   It’s why you all are so upset Trump was not convicted.  Your side should have focused on the Presidential inaction after the riot started.  

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24 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

His false claims of vote fraud being lofty enough to sway the election were not the core reason of the Capitol riot, but I can appreciate your train of thought here.   If he were a standard suit that didn't say brash s#!t he never would have amassed the following he has, ergo the Capitol riot never happens.  But it did.

 

We could also play 7 degrees to Kevin Bacon and say if Nancy never rips up the speech it doesn't happen because civil unrest never gets to a boiling point.  But these are unfortunately hypotheticals.  I don't disagree, Trump's wilful appeal to his constituency is unique enough to say it's his fault.  But his words were the evidence and the evidence was weak.  I'm in the camp of he knows his words have inadvertent reactions making them intended.  But I don't think this instance was worthy of an impeachment or a conviction.  I know that's not a popular opinion.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you. As mentioned, I think the Democrats probably screwed up both impeachments. 

 

You could always cast reasonable doubt about whether Donald Trump intended for his followers to violently attack the Capitol building (though he clearly loved the gesture). But it's unquestionable that Trump refused to accept the results of a well-validated democratic election and used a variety of highly unethical means to undermine America's faith in its institutions order to remain in power as an unelected dictator. The latter is all you need to impeach the President, and I'd say it comes closer to treason than anything a U.S. President has done in our once proud history. 

 

But Nancy tearing up a speech? That's barely a ripple in the Trump cosmos. 

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