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Trump Impeachment # 2


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41 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

My standard is that if you believe Donald Trump lied about election fraud and leaned on minor state officials to betray their duties in order to keep him office -- as apparently you do -- then you should support his impeachment.  You don't even need January 6 for that. 

That’s not what he was impeached for.  
 

And it’s best not to assume. better to just ask.  

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35 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Where would you rank Trump's culpability in terms of the things he said and did between the election and the riot itself on Jan. 6th? It appears, from your perspective, that rioters would've stormed the Capitol and disrupted the electoral confirmation process even if Trump had gone to Mar-A-Lago on Nov. 7th and not said or done a peep for two months.

 

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but if you truly believe that, I'd be stunned. And if you don't believe that, and you think Trump does own some culpability, then @Guy Chamberlin's comment is pretty on point.

 

Trump disputing the election was fine until mid December when it was clear the mail in and harvesting shenanigans and were not going to be looked at.  He should have stopped the rhetoric at that point.  
 

To your paragraph about Guys point.  Trump wasn’t impeached for that.  Which kinda makes my entire point that the Dems f’d the impeachment from the beginning.  It wasn’t an incitement charge 

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28 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

You heart is in the right place on this and I don't disagree with it.  But we cannot convict and punish people who did not commit the crime.  Yes he attained a following, that is not a crime.  The following committed the crime, punish them.  And that's what is happening.

 

If we set the precedent that we can punish individuals based off the actions of others I don't think any of us will like the America we are left with.

Amen

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13 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Trump disputing the election was fine until mid December when it was clear the mail in and harvesting shenanigans and were not going to be looked at.  He should have stopped the rhetoric at that point.  
 

To your paragraph about Guys point.  Trump wasn’t impeached for that.  Which kinda makes my entire point that the Dems f’d the impeachment from the beginning.  It wasn’t an incitement charge 

Thanks for clarifying. One additional follow-up question (a hypothetical):

 

If there would have been an impeachment charge that qualified as "high crimes and misdemeanors," and the focus of the charge was to hold Trump accountable for his words and actions that contributed to the Jan. 6th insurrection, you would have supported it?

 

I'm not smart enough to know what that hypothetical charge would be, but I know you've been pretty critical of the specific charge the actual impeachment went by. I'm trying to gauge if you think there's an impeachment charge you would've supported or if you would never have supported an impeachment of Trump regardless of the charge.

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9 minutes ago, Enhance said:

 

If there would have been an impeachment charge that qualified as "high crimes and misdemeanors," and the focus of the charge was to hold Trump accountable for his words and actions that contributed to the Jan. 6th insurrection, you would have supported it?

No.  Unless there is an illegal offense tucked in there somewhere.  I can’t stress this enough.   Trump didn’t do anything different than many Dems did this past summer.  The causes were different.  So if you want to impeach Trump for that, all I ask is to be consistent and ask for the impeachment of those Dems too.  More violence happened this summer and more people died from it.  

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Just now, Archy1221 said:

No.  Unless there is an illegal offense tucked in there somewhere.  I can’t stress this enough.   Trump didn’t do anything different than many Dems did this past summer.  The causes were different.  So if you want to impeach Trump for that, all I ask is to be consistent and ask for the impeachment of those Dems too.  More violence happened this summer and more people died from it.  

Understood. I still disagree with your perspective (and equivalency examples) but I at least better understand your opinion.

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9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Help me understand why you don’t agree with the equivalency.  

I'm not trying to avoid the question, but are there specific examples you find equitable to the Trump situation that you could share or have shared that you could point me to? I'd rather compare specifics than generalities.

 

This would also help determine if these comparisons are equitable from a literal "impeachment" standpoint (meaning, is/are the Dem(s) that mad the comments impeachable by the Constitution).

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7 minutes ago, Enhance said:

I'm not trying to avoid the question, but are there specific examples you find equitable to the Trump situation that you could share or have shared that you could point me to? I'd rather compare specifics than generalities.

 

This would also help determine if these comparisons are equitable from a literal "impeachment" standpoint (meaning, is/are the Dem(s) that mad the comments impeachable by the Constitution).

I guess stick with the three scenarios for brevity sake:

 

Maxine Waters 

Kamala Harris (multiple occasions I’m sure you are aware since you follow the news closely) encouraging the rioting and in interviews saying they won’t stop, along with bailing out the arrested rioters which in turn encourages more rioting since there are no repercussions for rioting.

Bernie Sanders rhetoric prior to the congressional DC shooting by one of his supporters.  

 

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1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

You heart is in the right place on this and I don't disagree with it.  But we cannot convict and punish people who did not commit the crime.  Yes he attained a following, that is not a crime.  The following committed the crime, punish them.  And that's what is happening.

 

If we set the precedent that we can punish individuals based off the actions of others I don't think any of us will like the America we are left with.

 

Again, no one is prosecuting a crime here. Donald Trump would never go to jail for this. The reasonable question was whether his grotesque and un-American actions to over-turn the election warrant condemnation, rescinding some of his federal government perks, and prevent him from seeking the office again.

 

As many have already observed: if you don't punish Donald Trump for this, when would you ever punish anyone? 

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22 minutes ago, Redux said:

So why wasn't Jodi Foster sent to prison for being the reason Hinckley shot Reagan?  

Why was Charles Manson sent to prison for murders he didn't personally commit? Come on...

 

I don't mind playing a game of comparisons, but the examples should at least be germane. This is just silly.

 

The last time someone asked you about Manson you brought up beer and avoided the issue entirely. I know you can acknowledge why not all situations are created equal, hence the allowance for nuance in virtually all levels of judicial practices.

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Just now, Archy1221 said:

I guess stick with the three scenarios for brevity sake:

 

Maxine Waters 

Kamala Harris (multiple occasions I’m sure you are aware since you follow the news closely) encouraging the rioting and in interviews saying they won’t stop, along with bailing out the arrested rioters which in turn encourages more rioting since there are no repercussions for rioting.

Bernie Sanders rhetoric prior to the congressional DC shooting by one of his supporters.  

 

 

Do me a favor and replace "rioting" with "protesting" since you know it makes a difference. 

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