Year 4 Expectations

[TheSker]

4 hours ago, Huskers93-97 said:

So from now on we refer to the first 3 years of the Frost tenure as year -2, -1 and O. Now we are year 1

It's year 4

 

List every single offensive lineman that Riley brought to Nebraska followed  by their contribution and how their time as a Husker ended.

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, J-MAGIC said:

I think our fanbase greatly underestimates/undersells just how bad of a job Mike Riley did. It's genuinely one of the worst P5 tenures relative to standards at a school in recent memory. He took a team that was consistently in the 20s-30s in SP under Pelini to the 100s in **three years**. Perception-wise, Frost dug his own grave when he talked all that trash when he got hired so he's not blameless, but this wasn't "leaving the cupboard kinda bare." This was ripping the cupboard out of the house, smashing it with a sledgehammer and setting the debris on fire.

 

And some fans greatly exaggerate the hole Scott Frost was asked to crawl out of. Riley recruiting classes were ranked #30, #26 and #23. Frost improved that with classes ranked #23, #17, and #20.  Either way, the cupboard wasn't bare, much less smashed to bits, and three seasons of your own Top 25 recruiting classes, coaching philosophy, schemes, and player development would be enough to see marked improvement over your predecessor. New coaches are expected to put out dumpsters fires all the time, and do it immediately. That's why they were hired.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

5 minutes ago, TheSker said:

It's year 4

 

List every single offensive lineman that Riley brought to Nebraska followed  by their contribution and how their time as a Husker ended.

 

It's year 4. 

 

That's a decent amount of time for Frost's recruits to have replaced them. 

 

Mistakes were made. They may or may not have been corrected. We'll see.

 

Like I said: Year One expectations. 

[TheSker]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's year 4. 

 

That's a decent amount of time for Frost's recruits to have replaced them. 

 

Mistakes were made. They may or may not have been corrected. We'll see.

 

Like I said: Year One expectations. 

It's year 4.

 

Mistakes were made by Frost.  Riley was just in so far over his head it's not funny.

 

One thing Frost has said since year 1 is Nebraska wasn't big enough on the lines of scrimmage.  Teams like Michigan and Minnesota controlled the line of scrimmage.

 

Look at the offensive linemen Riley signed in his entire tenure.

 

Then look at what Frost has brought in.

 

Frost knows what it's going to take to be competitive in the B1G.

 

Frost's first class was a bust.  It's been better since.....especially on the OL.

 

Riley's entire tenure was fool's gold from a recruiting standpoint.

[Mavric]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

And some fans greatly exaggerate the hole Scott Frost was asked to crawl out of. Riley recruiting classes were ranked #30, #26 and #23. Frost improved that with classes ranked #23, #17, and #20.  Either way, the cupboard wasn't bare, much less smashed to bits, and three seasons of your own Top 25 recruiting classes, coaching philosophy, schemes, and player development would be enough to see marked improvement over your predecessor. New coaches are expected to put out dumpsters fires all the time, and do it immediately. That's why they were hired.  

 

The cupboard was bare.  We didn't recruit an entire offensive unit of contributors in a four-year period.  You're supposed to recruit a two-deep every two years.  We didn't recruit a full one-deep in four.  The rankings may have looked nice but when they're full of Keyshawn Johnson Jr's, Tyjon Lindsey's, Tre Bryant's and not nearly enough offensive linemen, defensive linemen or linebackers that are legitimate B1G players, the don't mean much.

[swmohusker]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I've never understood the argument that Midwest teams and football players aren't speedy and don't know how to drop back and throw the ball.

 

If this is about the weather, somehow Green Bay manages to run one of the best pro style offenses in the business in Green Bay. In winter. 

 

The teams we need to beat in the Big 10 feature quarterbacks who can drop back, look off receivers, and complete 65% of their passes to fleet receivers, who come from all corners of America. 

 

Also, most players you want to recruit dream of playing professional football. Telling them they can play a cold-weather, midwest style of college football less conducive to the NFL isn't a great incentive. 

I guess by Pro Style I mean bringing in a pure passing QB and OTs that can pass pro consistently.  Harder to find a good enough QB that doesnt run and can just chuck the ball around.  Also, Pro Style offenses have A LOT of verbiage and a much more difficult learning curve, so it harder for younger guys to play early bc of not only the physical demands but the mental too.  A lot of NFL qbs are single side of the field readers and if they struggle to progress and work through the reads of pass concepts imagine how hard that is to do for College guys.  Using a spread simplifies the game for the QB.  Shoot.. Even Bama has ditched the "pro" system and are heavy RPO get the ball to your athletes in space offense.  They dont run the Q bc they are so good every else they dont have to.  

[swmohusker]

1 hour ago, runningblind said:

 

 

 

I understand what you both are saying.  However, the decision to run off a bunch of kids, tear the program down and bring in all of his guys was Frost's decision.  That is fine, and may turn out to the be the right one yet.  However, you don't get to hide behind inexperience if that was your own choice longer than a couple years.  That doesn't fly with me in year 4.  I need to see improvements in coaching during games, and I need to see wins to believe things are on the right track.  Otherwise we will be back here in a year with people spouting this same stuff about how year 5 is really year 2.  

 

I won't accept Nebraska football fans just making lists of excuses for years on end, that is flat out lame fellas.  We can look at the facts for sure, but the biggest fact is that if things aren't trending up significantly by year 4 no matter the situation prior we have a large problem on our hands still.  This is completely Frost's team now, with only Frost's guys and Frost's culture.  Riley can't be blamed for the mindset now, if it still sucks then that is on the current staff whether you like that or not.

-Inexperience at the OL and DL was not his choice.  Flat out didnt recruit at those positions well enough and it showed early on. 

-Not flying in year 4 may be a true statement.  I will let year 4 play out before I make that judgment.  

-Coaching?  I believe in our offensive system.  When we execute and we are pretty good. Defense has been a pleasant surprise and am very excited for this season.  Deep and talented and they are fun to watch fly around.  This group has a very high ceiling.  Special teams I will admit have been just awful  They have been around here since Pelini took control of the squad.  They were bad when 450 was here and his only job was special teams.  Never saw such dysfunction on units when that is your sole duty.  

- I am a fan and usually error towards optimism.  It is just too exhausting for something I have no control in to fret too much.  I am as big a fan as the rest of us around here.  

- We are trending up based off statistical analysis and the eye test.  Admit it or not the B1G has improved drastically over the last few years thanks to revenue sharing.  Kansas will always be Kansas, but look at even Rutgers.  Nice facilities and a top notch coach.  Winning in this league is going to be tough sledding and we almost have the sled to do it.

- I don't think the mindset can now be blamed on Riley.  Look at where we are more experienced and you will find a mindset that matches up with what Frost wants.  Our defense is becoming a veteran unit and they have the look of a unit ready to hold each other accountable and play at a high level.  Our offense was/is very young at all levels and you did not see the right mindset.  The young guys have talent, but are not ready to lead. The older guys lack talent but want to do things the right way. You could see the coaches try to infuse talent throughout the year but it is just not going to look very good, or at least consistent.

- I may be giving too much grace, but COVID was a thing too. Doesn't exonerate the coaching staff or the development but I take marginal gains or setbacks with a grain of salt during an unprecedented year. 

[J-MAGIC]

3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

And some fans greatly exaggerate the hole Scott Frost was asked to crawl out of. Riley recruiting classes were ranked #30, #26 and #23. Frost improved that with classes ranked #23, #17, and #20.  Either way, the cupboard wasn't bare, much less smashed to bits, and three seasons of your own Top 25 recruiting classes, coaching philosophy, schemes, and player development would be enough to see marked improvement over your predecessor. New coaches are expected to put out dumpsters fires all the time, and do it immediately. That's why they were hired.  

 

I don't care what the classes ranked at the time; all the Riley recruits either left or were bad, dude. Not a single player he is responsible for recruiting to Nebraska has been drafted into the NFL yet and outside from maybe Farniok and Jaimes I don't think any are locks to. The Athletic just did its re-rank of the top 70 2017 recruiting classes and Nebraska finished 70TH. Last place out of all the teams they ranked! I mean, come on!

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, J-MAGIC said:

 

I don't care what the classes ranked at the time; all the Riley recruits either left or were bad, dude. Not a single player he is responsible for recruiting to Nebraska has been drafted into the NFL yet and outside from maybe Farniok and Jaimes I don't think any are locks to. The Athletic just did its re-rank of the top 70 2017 recruiting classes and Nebraska finished 70TH. Last place out of all the teams they ranked! I mean, come on!

 

Well technically Devine Ozigbo, Stanley Morgan, and Lamar Jackson have all drawn NFL paychecks.

 

Scott Frost's improving defense also leaned heavily on Riley recruits like Bootle, Doman, Miller, Dismuke, and Stille this season.

 

Three seasons of Frost recruits on the OL produced a season with fewer rushing yards per game and per carry than the 2018 team Frost inherited. 

 

And if we're talking about re-ranking recruiting classes, Frost's previously impressive 23rd ranked class tanked much like Rileys. And the defections have been every bit as disheartening.

 

Like I said. Clean slate. Starting over. Good recruiting class by all reports. But it's Year Four. The Riley excuse has run dry. 

[Hilltop]

15 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well technically Devine Ozigbo, Stanley Morgan, and Lamar Jackson have all drawn NFL paychecks.

 

Scott Frost's improving defense also leaned heavily on Riley recruits like Bootle, Doman, Miller, Dismuke, and Stille this season.

 

Three seasons of Frost recruits on the OL produced a season with fewer rushing yards per game and per carry than the 2018 team Frost inherited. 

 

And if we're talking about re-ranking recruiting classes, Frost's previously impressive 23rd ranked class tanked much like Rileys. And the defections have been every bit as disheartening.

 

Like I said. Clean slate. Starting over. Good recruiting class by all reports. But it's Year Four. The Riley excuse has run dry. 

Strength of schedule in 2018 - 41

Strength of schedule 2020 - 24

 

And we had no spring or fall to prep, no Bethune on the schedule, and a slate of all B1G opponents - come on Guy.  

[TheSker]

2 minutes ago, Lightfighter214 said:

No one had fall or spring prep, thats a tired reason.

 

Stregnth of schedule is incredibly important, but not as important as not being prepared to play and getting blown out by illinios,  or losing at home to a Minnesota team missing a large chunk of its roster and hadnt playerd in three week.

No spring practice and limited fall prep hurt teams like Nebraska worse than others because we were hoping for some impact early enrollee freshmen to be ready.

 

It also hurt second year players like Benhart and Piper who were stepping into major roles 

 

[J-MAGIC]

44 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well technically Devine Ozigbo, Stanley Morgan, and Lamar Jackson have all drawn NFL paychecks.

 

Scott Frost's improving defense also leaned heavily on Riley recruits like Bootle, Doman, Miller, Dismuke, and Stille this season.

 

Three seasons of Frost recruits on the OL produced a season with fewer rushing yards per game and per carry than the 2018 team Frost inherited. 

 

And if we're talking about re-ranking recruiting classes, Frost's previously impressive 23rd ranked class tanked much like Rileys. And the defections have been every bit as disheartening.

 

Like I said. Clean slate. Starting over. Good recruiting class by all reports. But it's Year Four. The Riley excuse has run dry. 

 

Your argument that our talent wasn't that bad being based entirely on three UDFA guys on the fringes of the rosters of terrible teams is proving my point.

 

Oh, what? The transition class in the first year of the early signing period that was a mash-up of the bad coach's guys and whoever our new coach could flip in two weeks while preparing another team for a bowl game part-time wasn't good??? Freshman and sophomore linemen weren't as good as junior and senior linemen??? Crazy, man. Can't believe it.

 

The Riley stuff is less and less impactful each year. But not having the class that would be redshirt juniors and true seniors not exist is absolutely still impacting this program. It's why our depth sucks and we play like garbage every second half. It's why we have to play true freshman walk-on Isaac Gifford on every special team.  I wish we were magically good and that Riley hadn't cratered the roster, too, but come on.

[Guy Chamberlin]

6 hours ago, swmohusker said:

I guess by Pro Style I mean bringing in a pure passing QB and OTs that can pass pro consistently.  Harder to find a good enough QB that doesnt run and can just chuck the ball around.  Also, Pro Style offenses have A LOT of verbiage and a much more difficult learning curve, so it harder for younger guys to play early bc of not only the physical demands but the mental too.  A lot of NFL qbs are single side of the field readers and if they struggle to progress and work through the reads of pass concepts imagine how hard that is to do for College guys.  Using a spread simplifies the game for the QB.  Shoot.. Even Bama has ditched the "pro" system and are heavy RPO get the ball to your athletes in space offense.  They dont run the Q bc they are so good every else they dont have to.  

 

Yeah, but your original post suggested it was a Midwest thing. Whoever these fancy strong armed quarterbacks are, they surely don't come from the Midwest, or want to play here. That's the part I don't understand.

 

I also see high school teams play pro style ball. It's not rocket science. It's football. RPO is different, but not necessarily less sophisticated or requiring fewer reps. 

 

Offensive linemen I kinda get, but if you're a promising recruit and you're not learning to protect a drop back quarterback, you're hurting your chances for an NFL career. 

 

What we're seeing are really good teams that know how to both run and pass. The quarterbacks are mobile, even if they're not taking many designed runs. And while running is great, they have to be better passers than runners. That's where Nebraska has been getting tripped up. 

[swmohusker]

43 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yeah, but your original post suggested it was a Midwest thing. Whoever these fancy strong armed quarterbacks are, they surely don't come from the Midwest, or want to play here. That's the part I don't understand.

 

I also see high school teams play pro style ball. It's not rocket science. It's football. RPO is different, but not necessarily less sophisticated or requiring fewer reps. 

 

Offensive linemen I kinda get, but if you're a promising recruit and you're not learning to protect a drop back quarterback, you're hurting your chances for an NFL career. 

 

What we're seeing are really good teams that know how to both run and pass. The quarterbacks are mobile, even if they're not taking many designed runs. And while running is great, they have to be better passers than runners. That's where Nebraska has been getting tripped up. 

- Bc more than likely those big time arms are more than likely not from the Midwest. Can be, but more than likely coming from a coast. Bigger cities have bigger talent pools and also have some of the highest level of coaching.  Some Big city programs (not all) will have a full varsity, JV and Frosh staff.  Most Midwest areas you get what you get. 
- I have coached a RPO offense at the high school level. Simplify things and play fast.  Make the defense react and make them base out. Not rocket science but can be complex with how you put people in conflict. We ran a pro style offense in college and holy cow the verbiage makes your head spin. Not even talking plays, just formations and motions.  
- OL you can protect them by not putting them in situations where they have to win in pass pro. Look at the 2 most pro teams in the west Iowa and wiscy.  When they have to pass they are bad at it. They can’t protect. They can recruit to their system and pass to compliment the run. I didn’t think Riley ever had any intentions of running the ball.  He wanted to throw the ball.  We can’t recruit those guys. 

[Stumpy1]

11 hours ago, swmohusker said:

-Pro style offense in the Midwest with limited access to pro style recruits. changed from a spread and hinders development and restarts recruiting. 
-Changed defensive philosophy completely from even to odd front setting back recruiting and development 

- emphasis on weight room. (Ignoring the rumors of lack of lifting by starters out guys just looked soft and got pushed around. 
- culture fit. Sprinkles not tough minded. Not going to compete with Iowa and wiscy with sprinkles. 

- what it takes to be a champions. Winning mindset.  Champions are forged by hard work and not hoped for. 
- somewhat bare???  Look at the OL guys from Riley. Game is won and lost upfront on both sides of the ball. Riley OL guys were yikes. 

-Barnett, Gaylord, decker no impact

raridon, brokop no impact

-wilson farniok being passed by freshman Frost guys

- Bando, sichterman, walker no impact. 

 

 

 

I will play devils advocate here.

 

Frost's best offensive season was due to Riley's Pro-Style guys. 

 

We had already started moving to a 3-4 under Riley because of Diaco.  

 

Weight room stuff does have some leeway but they were still lifting, not just up to Epley standards( long story).

 

Winning culture?  Last I checked,  Riley had a better winning % in his first 3 years. I already know the excuse that will come up for this. 

 

OL recruiting.  Again, Frost's best year was with guys that were coached for 3 years by Riley and he had a veteran line last year and could have had the same this year but decided not too (I think it will payoff in the long run). 

 

The covid excuse is just plain stupid.  Every team in the nation went through the same.