We are a young team

[Savage Husker]

1 hour ago, All Hail Herbie said:

There is no disagreement about Coach Frost's desire to find success.  The question is whether he actually will make us competitive again.  Following 3 poor seasons, the trajectory is not good at this moment.

 

In terms of your last point, I think an ultimatum is extreme.  That said, should we at least entertain some expectations as we enter Year 4? A resounding yes!  Perhaps far fewer penalties, far fewer turnovers, no jump snaps, and better reads by the QB.  All of these issues are correctable, and are the responsibility of the coaching staff.

 

If we are playing "clean" football, the games will get more competitive and we will win our share of those closer games.  Amazing that a team like Kansas State, with far less tradition, far fewer resources, and far less talent can play much "cleaner" football and outpace us in wins the last 4 years (25 vs.16), bowl appearances (2 vs. 0) and significant wins (OU Twice).  

For comparison sake, Their head coach is 12-11 and just went through a losing season, what’s their trajectory look like?

[All Hail Herbie]

9 minutes ago, Savage Husker said:

For comparison sake, Their head coach is 12-11 and just went through a losing season, what’s their trajectory look like?

Point well taken so let's assess.  As you correctly point out, Coach Klieman has 12 wins in 2 seasons compared to 12 wins in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 1 Bowl appearance in 2 seasons compared to 0 in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 2 Top 10 wins (both OU) in 2 seasons compared to 0 for Coach Frost in 3 seasons.  Coach Klieman's best conference finish was 3rd and Coach Frost's best finish was a 5th Place Division finish.

 

Any reasonable person would conclude that K-State is pacing ahead of NU in terms of progress under new regimes.  Moreover, I could argue that K-State is getting better value right now as Coach Klieman is being compensated at 50% of Coach Frost's salary.

 

 

 

 

[TheSker]

32 minutes ago, All Hail Herbie said:

Point well taken so let's assess.  As you correctly point out, Coach Klieman has 12 wins in 2 seasons compared to 12 wins in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 1 Bowl appearance in 2 seasons compared to 0 in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 2 Top 10 wins (both OU) in 2 seasons compared to 0 for Coach Frost in 3 seasons.  Coach Klieman's best conference finish was 3rd and Coach Frost's best finish was a 5th Place Division finish.

 

Any reasonable person would conclude that K-State is pacing ahead of NU in terms of progress under new regimes.  Moreover, I could argue that K-State is getting better value right now as Coach Klieman is being compensated at 50% of Coach Frost's salary.

 

 

 

 

Klieman followed the greatest coach in the history of Kansas State football.

 

Frost followed "you know who".

 

Breathe 

 

We're fine.

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, TheSker said:

Klieman followed the greatest coach in the history of Kansas State football.

 

Frost followed "you know who".

 

Breathe 

 

We're fine.

 

I mean, not to be a snarky doom and gloom kinda poster, but doesn't this mean the bar for Frost was historically low, making it much easier to meet or exceed expectations?

 

As I understand it, the trajectory for Nebraska has already been adjusted in a direction that's not up, due to his fourth team being really young and the schedule being really tough. 

[TheSker]

7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I mean, not to be a snarky doom and gloom kinda poster, but doesn't this mean the bar for Frost was historically low, making it much easier to meet or exceed expectations?

 

As I understand it, the trajectory for Nebraska has already been adjusted in a direction that's not up, due to his fourth team being really young and the schedule being really tough. 

You're welcome to be as snarky and doom and gloom as you like.  Your neighbors are probably overjoyed.

 

Here's the thing about expectations for Frost.  They are high.  Really high 

 

He's coached an undefeated team.

 

That is rare.

 

I'm personally excited and optimistic for this coming season.

[All Hail Herbie]

1 hour ago, TheSker said:

Klieman followed the greatest coach in the history of Kansas State football.

 

Frost followed "you know who".

 

Breathe 

 

We're fine.

 

Still breathing.  I just hope those that have all of their hopes for the future of the program tied to Coach Frost are prepared for an assessment at the end of Year 5.  Good man, great program ambassador, terrific former player, and likely a good Non-Power 5 Head Coach.  

[TheSker]

3 minutes ago, All Hail Herbie said:

 

Still breathing.  I just hope those that have all of their hopes for the future of the program tied to Coach Frost are prepared for an assessment at the end of Year 5.  Good man, great program ambassador, terrific former player, and likely a good Non-Power 5 Head Coach.  

Frost gets evaluated on every season.

 

Let's see what happens in season 4 before you make claims about post season 5.

[lo country]

23 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I mean, not to be a snarky doom and gloom kinda poster, but doesn't this mean the bar for Frost was historically low, making it much easier to meet or exceed expectations?

 

As I understand it, the trajectory for Nebraska has already been adjusted in a direction that's not up, due to his fourth team being really young and the schedule being really tough. 

Not aimed at you......If NU has set the bar at "better than Riley", we are still behind that and under the high water mark Riley set....19-19 in 3 years and 1-1 in bowls.... Frost is currently 11-20......And turned down a bowl......And saying we simply want better than Riley is BS.....

[Savage Husker]

 

3 minutes ago, All Hail Herbie said:

 

Still breathing.  I just hope those that have all of their hopes for the future of the program tied to Coach Frost are prepared for an assessment at the end of Year 5.  Good man, great program ambassador, terrific former player, and likely a good Non-Power 5 Head Coach.  

If you’re looking at Frost end of year 5, then I believe you’ll be fine with the trajectory at that point. 
 

Snyder was 13-20 in his first 3 and had 3 losing seasons out of 4. If we are comparing the two programs then I don’t agree that Klieman’s task is comparable when it comes to succeeding the coach who created the culture of KSU. 

 

This program hasn’t seen such poor talent in decades - we ended our draft streak and had “anonymous” coaches questioning what’s going on at NU before Frost ever was an idea. Yes, Frost is responsible and at fault - I don’t think we should ever have a losing season - but I think some stops require closer to 5-year turnarounds.

[Guy Chamberlin]

35 minutes ago, TheSker said:

You're welcome to be as snarky and doom and gloom as you like.  Your neighbors are probably overjoyed.

 

Here's the thing about expectations for Frost.  They are high.  Really high 

 

He's coached an undefeated team.

 

That is rare.

 

I'm personally excited and optimistic for this coming season.

 

Well I was perky, optimistic and excited about Frost's seasons one and two, a little less so for season three. That's kinda how we got here. You can't keep pretending Mike Riley is Voldemort. 

[TheSker]

2 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well I was perky, optimistic and excited about Frost's seasons one and two, a little less so for season three. That's kinda how we got here. You can't keep pretending Mike Riley is Voldemort. 

My optimism comes from how much emphasis Frost is putting on the offensive line.

 

We'll see how it pans out.

 

My view on Mike Riley will probably change about as much as yours will on Bo Pelini.

[Huskers93-97]

I remember when Bill Callahan was the joke of all husker nation as a horrible coach. The. Riley came and made Callahan not look so bad. I hope Frost changes his trajectory

[J-MAGIC]

18 hours ago, All Hail Herbie said:

Point well taken so let's assess.  As you correctly point out, Coach Klieman has 12 wins in 2 seasons compared to 12 wins in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 1 Bowl appearance in 2 seasons compared to 0 in 3 seasons for Coach Frost.  Coach Klieman has 2 Top 10 wins (both OU) in 2 seasons compared to 0 for Coach Frost in 3 seasons.  Coach Klieman's best conference finish was 3rd and Coach Frost's best finish was a 5th Place Division finish.

 

Any reasonable person would conclude that K-State is pacing ahead of NU in terms of progress under new regimes.  Moreover, I could argue that K-State is getting better value right now as Coach Klieman is being compensated at 50% of Coach Frost's salary.

 

 

 

 

 

Klieman inherited a development machine set up by Snyder in good standing, had an quality and experienced returning quarterback, and plays in a much easier conference. If he hadn't pulled off two of the most insanely lucky wins I've ever seen off against OU not a single person would be talking about him. K-State finished about 40 spots below us in SP+ last year at 70th. If they had played our schedule they would have been favored to win one game.

[Guy Chamberlin]

18 hours ago, TheSker said:

You're welcome to be as snarky and doom and gloom as you like.  Your neighbors are probably overjoyed.

 

Here's the thing about expectations for Frost.  They are high.  Really high 

 

He's coached an undefeated team.

 

That is rare.

 

I'm personally excited and optimistic for this coming season.

 

I hope you know that I basically agree with you, — especially on offensive line priorities — and have approached every season with optimism for the past 50+ years because I'm a fan and because there's always at least some just cause.

 

If I tweak you it's because we both know that had Mike Riley not been fired, and proceeded to make every single personnel decision and playcall that Scott Frost has made, generating the exact same result, you would be utterly apoplectic that he was still the coach of the University of Nebraska. Like most of us you would be convinced that none of this would have happened if Scott Frost was the coach. 

 

Tell you what, let's neither of us blame Riley or Pelini for anything. This is year four for Scott Frost. The expectation is that he start winning more games than Mike, and better games than Bo. The understanding is that we aren't "fine" at the moment, and it's on the head coach to do something about it in the next three years. Fair? 

[TheSker]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I hope you know that I basically agree with you, — especially on offensive line priorities — and have approached every season with optimism for the past 50+ years because I'm a fan and because there's always at least some just cause.

 

If I tweak you it's because we both know that had Mike Riley not been fired, and proceeded to make every single personnel decision and playcall that Scott Frost has made, generating the exact same result, you would be utterly apoplectic that he was still the coach of the University of Nebraska. Like most of us you would be convinced that none of this would have happened if Scott Frost was the coach. 

 

Tell you what, let's neither of us blame Riley or Pelini for anything. This is year four for Scott Frost. The expectation is that he start winning more games than Mike, and better games than Bo. The understanding is that we aren't "fine" at the moment, and it's on the head coach to do something about it in the next three years. Fair? 

Yes, I know....I've always considered it good natured, fun banter.

 

I haven't been a fan for 50 years as I just turned that age......

 

Though I'm not a fan of Mike Riley in the least, it's really Perlman who was our architect of football disaster.

 

One big difference between Frost and Riley is Frost makes it known exactly what he's looking for in regard to recruiting.  Frost likes offensive lineman in the mid to upper 6' range who have good movement 

 

Did you have any idea of Riley's recruiting strategy......other than celebrities kids?  Me neither 

 

This is.....and has been.....Frost's team.  But flipping personnel is not easy.  I mean, the fact that Frost got Benhart and Corcoran to Nebraska is a big accomplishment in itself for where the program is right now.

 

When I say we are "fine", it means Frost is following his blueprint.

 

And again, with that said .....yes, I know you and I I mostly agree.

 

.....now time to watch some match play with a cold one.  Cheers!