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Floyd Case Verdict


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6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I'm not sure there's an apples/apples comparison to be made with the revolutionary war, and the issues of today. From the books I've read, early American attacks/riots would largely directed at the British and/or British interests. Not the innocent, fellow American.... And that's where I have an issue with the rioting today. Take it to the institution, not the guy down the street trying to make a life for his family.

 

Well......yeah. The point is that some people want to use the worst possible example to discredit a much larger population and their justifiable goals. 

 

In case you didn't notice, the issue isn't rioting. 

 

Also to your point, the British thought the Americans were lower class thugs. True story.

 

Another true story: Sam Adams and associate patriots were clever provocateurs. They encouraged and sometimes orchestrated the vandalizing and harassment of stores owned by Americans who sided with the British. As these escalated, it was also understood and encouraged that getting a British soldier to over-react and kill a colonist would be good for galvanizing anti-British sentiment. And that's the Boston Massacre for you. 

 

Now don't get me started on the British East India Company. 

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1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well......yeah. The point is that some people want to use the worst possible example to discredit a much larger population and their justifiable goals. 

 

In case you didn't notice, the issue isn't rioting. 

 

Also to your point, the British thought the Americans were lower class thugs. True story.

 

Another true story: Sam Adams and associate patriots were clever provocateurs. They encouraged and sometimes orchestrated the vandalizing and harassment of stores owned by Americans who sided with the British. As these escalated, it was also understood and encouraged that getting a British soldier to over-react and kill a colonist would be good for galvanizing anti-British sentiment. And that's the Boston Massacre for you. 

 

Now don't get me started on the British East India Company. 

 

Yeah, I hear you. I consider myself well-read in the Revolutionary War, and I still think the comparison is a bit of a reach.

 

Not a fan of the East India Company cornering the market on....well, everything? :D

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7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well......yeah. The point is that some people want to use the worst possible example to discredit a much larger population and their justifiable goals. 

 

In case you didn't notice, the issue isn't rioting. 

 

Also to your point, the British thought the Americans were lower class thugs. True story.

 

Another true story: Sam Adams and associate patriots were clever provocateurs. They encouraged and sometimes orchestrated the vandalizing and harassment of stores owned by Americans who sided with the British. As these escalated, it was also understood and encouraged that getting a British soldier to over-react and kill a colonist would be good for galvanizing anti-British sentiment. And that's the Boston Massacre for you. 

 

Now don't get me started on the British East India Company. 

They thought that about everyone in the world. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I never said it wasn’t nor is it relevant.  Guy brought up the Revolutionary War for some reason as a example of similar protestors/rioters.  By that same dumb logic, one could say the same about the idiot rioters on Jan 6th thinking they were being Patriots and rioting for a cause to save the country, they weren’t.  Since your justification for disagreeing is it was a lie, which I don’t disagree, you should call out Guy for comparing the protesters to Revolutionary’s because some of there protests among the years were based on lies also.   Yet you only do this crap to me?  
Done responding to anything beyond the verdict unless in a different thread 

 

This was your first post on the subject. Nothing about justice. Everything about the protestors. Going so far as to say it was all for nothing. Pretending they should have just waited quietly for a legal system that habitually screws up these verdicts.

 

This is the ugliest take you could have on today's events. Stick around and take the heat you've already earned on this thread, Pooh. 

 

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Just think, all that rioting and destruction for nothing.  All that summer unrest all for nothing.   Maybe next time, all the BLM leaders and CNN, MSNBC anchors will wait until the justice system makes it decision before crushing business owners dreams by destroying their business’s  

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1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

The question is whether a white frat boy jacked on coke and trying to crawl out of a police cruiser would ever have a knee on his neck for nine minutes until he died. In my experience, no. 

 

I mean, Kyle Rittenhouse couldn't even get the attention of police waving a M&P 15 rifle on the street where he just killed two people.  A unarmed 13 year old Black kid gets shot for reaching into his pocket. 

 

Asking Black people to be extra super respectful because they're Black is the problem, not the solution.

Don't misrepresent what I actually said and then try to make some point.  I don't disagree with what you are saying at all....but it has absolutely nothing to do with my comments.

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1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I'm not sure there's an apples/apples comparison to be made with the revolutionary war, and the issues of today. From the books I've read, early American attacks/riots would largely directed at the British and/or British interests. Not the innocent, fellow American.... And that's where I have an issue with the rioting today. Take it to the institution, not the guy down the street trying to make a life for his family.

I'm think the comparison is "The Boston Massacre" and the shooting of Ashley Babbit.  The one difference being Sr Airperson Babbit did not actually assault the officer.

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12 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I'm think the comparison is "The Boston Massacre" and the shooting of Ashley Babbit.  The one difference being Sr Airperson Babbit did not actually assault the officer.

 

Seditionist Babbit was a kook attacking the American Capitol in an attempt to overthrow a legal election. That couldn't be a worse example.

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15 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Pretending they should have just waited quietly for a legal system that habitually screws up these verdicts.

 

 

 

I was out of town on business yesterday, and couldn't comment, so reading today to catch up. I personally feel that the right verdict was reached for Chauvin. He messed up, and whether he intended to or not, Floyd died as a result of his actions. He absolutely made it the work of other cops, all around the Country, more difficult and dangerous with his actions last year.

 

However, regarding your statement above, in return to Archy.  You say a legal system that habitually screws up verdicts in cases like this. That word means regularly, repeatedly, customarily, to become a habit. 

 

That is your view, and you are welcome to it. But, perhaps, in whatever other cases you refer to, the verdict isn't one you like but is not "screwed up" or incorrect. Rodney King is the one blinding "screw up" that I can think of. That was 30 years ago. 

 

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39 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I was out of town on business yesterday, and couldn't comment, so reading today to catch up. I personally feel that the right verdict was reached for Chauvin. He messed up, and whether he intended to or not, Floyd died as a result of his actions. He absolutely made it the work of other cops, all around the Country, more difficult and dangerous with his actions last year.

 

However, regarding your statement above, in return to Archy.  You say a legal system that habitually screws up verdicts in cases like this. That word means regularly, repeatedly, customarily, to become a habit. 

 

That is your view, and you are welcome to it. But, perhaps, in whatever other cases you refer to, the verdict isn't one you like but is not "screwed up" or incorrect. Rodney King is the one blinding "screw up" that I can think of. That was 30 years ago. 

 

 

Do police regularly get off of charges that would land anyone else in jail? Do police habitually protect their own using resources not available to others? Do police lie on the stand, and more to the point, lacking any video proof, does a policeman win virtually every "he said/she said" account entered as evidence? Has even compelling video evidence been ignored until yesterday?

 

Are juries reluctant to convict police, mindful that the job is stressful and a conviction might discourage future recruitment?  Is there any doubt that while you consider the Chauvin verdict correct, the Chauvin verdict would not have happened if there were merely eyewitnesses recounting what they saw, up against Chauvin and fellow police witnesses assuring us the actions were valid --- which is what they tried to do, rather dishonestly? 

 

And seriously.....are you saying that because you can't recall anything like this happening since Rodney King, it doesn't happen? 

 

This isn't "my view".  It's just the way it is. I get the desire to use the "one bad apple" theory, and the rightwing's attempt to switch the narrative to making black protestors the real threat, but it's pretty cruel and ignorant for anyone who genuinely wants to move forward. 

 

I could grab some stats off Google. You could, too. But I'm going with the account of an ex-policeman who writes really well.

 

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

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3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

This isn't "my view".  It's just the way it is. I get the desire to use the "one bad apple" theory, and the rightwing's attempt to switch the narrative to making black protestors the real threat, but it's pretty cruel and ignorant for anyone who genuinely wants to move forward. 

People need to realize that police departments in large metro areas are very different than the average police you encounter in rural Nebraska and other areas.  

 

Just read up on the corruption in the Chicago police department and you start to realize how deep the problem is.

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16 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

Don't misrepresent what I actually said and then try to make some point.  I don't disagree with what you are saying at all....but it has absolutely nothing to do with my comments.

 

I didn't mean to misrepresent what you posted, but your point seemed to be that these unfortunate incidents wouldn't happen if people didn't resist arrest and treated police more respectfully. While that may be true, the proposition is really loaded, especially given yesterday's context, and it's an argument frequently aimed at Black people, ignoring some pretty major differences in police interactions. 

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1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

 

I was out of town on business yesterday, and couldn't comment, so reading today to catch up. I personally feel that the right verdict was reached for Chauvin. He messed up, and whether he intended to or not, Floyd died as a result of his actions. He absolutely made it the work of other cops, all around the Country, more difficult and dangerous with his actions last year.

 

However, regarding your statement above, in return to Archy.  You say a legal system that habitually screws up verdicts in cases like this. That word means regularly, repeatedly, customarily, to become a habit. 

 

That is your view, and you are welcome to it. But, perhaps, in whatever other cases you refer to, the verdict isn't one you like but is not "screwed up" or incorrect. Rodney King is the one blinding "screw up" that I can think of. That was 30 years ago. 

 

I only am a fringe watcher of legal things, but my wife ropes me into many criminal podcasts/documentaries. I can't tell you the number of opposite cases where someone who is close to the victim, usually missing person or murder, is wrongly tried for the crime even when they have a solid to overwhelming alibi. Then even when a more clear suspect comes into play with new evidence, prosecutors/cops refuse to admit wrongly accusing and double down on trials or refusing to reinvestigate.

 

Obviously this is the opposite of people getting off the hook they deserve, but if the system seems to fail often in this direction, it isn't hard to see it also come up short in the other. These kinds of cases probably make for less compelling stories and the public doesn't follow with as much fervor. Also, money (affluena kid), public notoriety/power (Matthew Broderick), and corruption (James Hepbron - Baltimore) can play into people getting away with crimes others wouldn't.

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11 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I didn't mean to misrepresent what you posted, but your point seemed to be that these unfortunate incidents wouldn't happen if people didn't resist arrest and treated police more respectfully. While that may be true, the proposition is really loaded, especially given yesterday's context, and it's an argument frequently aimed at Black people, ignoring some pretty major differences in police interactions. 


Hey I get that there are inequalities that need to be addressed. And I understand that it may be difficult for black people to trust law enforcement in a lot of situations. But, when it comes to the simple issue of survival (living or dying) through any police interaction, sooo many of these people are not doing themselves any favors. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the odds of being shot or killed increase greatly when you aren’t respectful, when you have a criminal record or warrants, when you resist.....  So many of these poster child moments for BLM and police brutality could’ve been easily prevented by the victim. That is just acknowledging reality and does not ignore that, yes, their are inequalities and systemic problems.

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1 minute ago, JJ Husker said:


Hey I get that there are inequalities that need to be addressed. And I understand that it may be difficult for black people to trust law enforcement in a lot of situations. But, when it comes to the simple issue of survival (living or dying) through any police interaction, sooo many of these people are not doing themselves any favors. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the odds of being shot or killed increase greatly when you aren’t respectful, when you have a criminal record or warrants, when you resist.....  So many of these poster child moments for BLM and police brutality could’ve been easily prevented by the victim. That is just acknowledging reality and does not ignore that, yes, their are inequalities and systemic problems.

 

Victim blaming isn't a good look. 

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