Is it scheme or play calling?

[hunter49]

where does our offense fall down the most? Frost says his scheme is adequate, is it?

[Decked]

Yes

[Loebarth]

No, it's not. Ryan Day, in his interview, if you listened to it one can easily see the short comings of frost's current scheme. Bubble screens and tempo are not the way of the future. I think that's what Day said.

[KC Sker]

17 minutes ago, Loebarth said:

Ryan Day, in his interview, if you listened to it one can easily see the short comings of frost's current scheme. 

Coming from a guy with a team where 5 star players back up 5 star players. Most Any "scheme" would be successful or another teams "scheme" able to be defeated where you got a team made up of future NFL players going up against walk ons from ball scratch Nebraska. 

[Mavric]

Talent

 

But when we show significant improvement this year many will talk about how we’re so much better now that Lubick is calling the plays and that Frost finally figured out he had to adjust to the B1G.

[lo country]

Contrary to peoples opinions, Frost has changed to a degree.  IMHO, he initially recruited exactly what he wanted and had at UCF.  The B1G is a completely different animal than the AAC.  He has spent his time since recruiting bigger/longer guys.  Guys who can bang at the LOS and actually start to win battles.  I think we will see Frost going more vertical in both the running and passing game.  

 

IIRC, this will be the first year that all of our receivers are over 6' tall.......

 

I also think that players who are more in the mold of our opponents will make the "scheme" look better.  TBH, we have statistically gone down in production each year offensively since Frost has been here. I think using your QB as the primary runner, or Wan'dale has led to that.  As have walk-ons as your starting receivers......Frost is going into year 6 as a HC....In a conference with some very solid coaches......At this point, I honestly think that year 1 (Stan, Oz, Farmer, Foster) was the closest to his scheme.  At this point, I have no idea what our scheme actually is.  I think this might be the first year we have athletes across the board (potential) to actually run something........

 

In conclusion, hard to blame one or the other.......Great talent can make a "poor" scheme look good......Scheming for what you have not what you want can go along way to winning ie NW..........Play calling/coaching decisions have been suspect.  Talent has been suspect.  Being sh!tty at the basics, will make any scheme suck.  This is what needs to be improved on to have any hope of turing the W-L columns.....

[Toe]

6 hours ago, hunter49 said:

where does our offense fall down the most?

 

Most of the problem has been getting the roster right.

 

Frost's best offense at Nebraska was in his first year. That year, the offense was Martinez (Frost recruit), Spielman and Ozigbo (Riley recruits), and the rest of the offense (notably the line) was mostly made of Bo's recruits in their senior year.

 

In the second year, the line took a huge nosedive when Bo's guys graduated and we were stuck with Riley's guys. Washington should have been our featured RB the last two years, and he showed plenty of flash, but he was kicked off the team. (And from the sound of things, the stuff he went to court over wasn't his only character issue.) The other problem is that Stanley Morgan graduated, and the best replacement we could come up with was Kanawai Noa, who didn't exactly wow anyone while he was here. Spielman and Wandale were both solid WRs, but they were both natural slot receivers, not guys who were speedy deep threats.

 

In year three, the line was... mediocre? Approaching average? Which was actually a significant step up from 'dismal'. But the receiver problem got ugly following Spielman's departure. We were stuck with guys like Kade Warner, a former walk-on who played in all eight games, started in half of them, but only contributed 40 yards the entire  season. And he was a team captain! If that doesn't shine an enormous spotlight on where the problem was, I don't know what does. And the RB situation may have been even worse. Our starter was Mills, who would probably make a great fullback, but not a great RB in this system. He had two great games, and that's about all he'll be remembered for. And our other RB was, uhh... a wide receiver.

 

So what happened? Most (not all) of the things that some blame Martinez (and by extension Verduzco) for are really due to deficiencies in the guys around him. The line has shown improvement, and I think we'll be reasonably OK there going forward. (O-lines take longer to develop and gel as a unit than any other position.)

 

It's still the WRs and RBs that stand out to me. The RB situation last year was alarming to me. Like I know there were some injuries and covid issues to deal with, but Held couldn't get anyone ready to play besides Mills? If we hadn't been stuck playing Wan'dale at RB, he'd probably still be here right now. I said in another thread, right now Held looks about like Keith Williams to me: lots of recruiting hype, but no production to show for it.

 

The WRs have seen absolutely disgusting attrition. Tyjon Lindsey, Jaevon McQuitty, and Keyshawn Johnson Jr were all 4* WRs in Riley's last class who bailed with little to no production. The WRs in Frost's first few classes haven't fared any better. Jaron Woodyard, Darien Chase, Demariyon Houston, Jamie Nance, Marcus Flemming - all guys who were 4* WR recruits or damn near it who have bailed. Wan'dale was our highest-rated recruit in some time, but without any other decent WRs it was easy for opposing defenses to key on him. And of course, now he's gone. That's no less than nine potential star WRs who should be playing for us right now, but aren't. NINE! Imagine that depth chart! But instead we've been stuck with leftovers.

 

And people wonder why our passing game has looked like dog s#!t at times. Hint: it ain't because of Martinez, it ain't because of Verduzco, it ain't because we run too many bubble screens, and it ain't because Frost needs to adjust his offense for the Big Ten.

 

I'd really, really like to know what went so horribly wrong in the receivers room. One practice report I saw said we were barely even practicing deep passes last year because the coaches knew we didn't have the players for it. (This spring was supposedly very different.) Dumping Walters in favor of Lubbick didn't really fix the problem. Considering that, I think it's fair to assign at least some of the blame to Frost. (I also largely blame him for the Illinois and Minnesota games last year - there's just no excuse.) But simply pointing the finger at Frost doesn't explain why attrition has been so much worse at WR than elsewhere - he's the head coach of the whole team, not just the receivers.

 

So what now? We've pulled in quite a few transfers at WR and RB, for obvious reasons. Will it help? RBs are probably the biggest mystery on the team heading into this season. We've got a group full of guys with lots of potential... and lots of injury history. It's probably not a question of who's the best RB on the team, but rather who can stay healthy. I would expect to see several different starters throughout the year, and an 'RB by committee' approach. It looks like the starting WRs will be Manning, Toure, and Martin. I think that should be a pretty solid starting group. Manning in particular looks exactly like the kind of deep threat we've been desperately missing the last two years. But I'm worried about him staying healthy, and the other starters for that matter, because I feel like we don't have the kind of depth that we really need behind them.

 

I've been wavering between seriously concerned and cautiously optimistic about the offense heading into this season. I feel like the potential is there for this to be an excellent offense. But I also think the margin of error is razor thin...

[Comish]

29 minutes ago, Toe said:

 

Most of the problem has been getting the roster right.

 

Frost's best offense at Nebraska was in his first year. That year, the offense was Martinez (Frost recruit), Spielman and Ozigbo (Riley recruits), and the rest of the offense (notably the line) was made of Bo's recruits in their senior year.

 

In the second year, the line took a huge nosedive when Bo's guys graduated and we were stuck with Riley's guys. Washington should have been our featured RB the last two years, and he showed plenty of flash, but he was kicked off the team. (And from the sound of things, the stuff he went to court over wasn't his only character issue.) The other problem is that Stanley Morgan graduated, and the best replacement we could come up with was Kanawai Noa, who didn't exactly wow anyone while he was here. Spielman and Wandale were both solid WRs, but they were both natural slot receivers, not guys who were speedy deep threats.

 

In year three, the line was... mediocre? Approaching average? Which was actually a significant step up from 'dismal'. But the receiver problem got ugly following Spielman's departure. We were stuck with guys like Kade Warner, a former walk-on who played in all eight games, started in half of them, but only contributed 40 yards the entire  season. And he was a team captain! If that doesn't shine an enormous spotlight on where the problem was, I don't know what does. And the RB situation may have been even worse. Our starter was Mills, who would probably make a great fullback, but not a great RB in this system. He had two great games, and that's about all he'll be remembered for. And our other RB was, uhh... a wide receiver.

 

So what happened? Most (not all) of the things that some blame Martinez (and by extension Verduzco) for are really due to deficiencies in the guys around him. The line has shown improvement, and I think we'll be reasonably OK there going forward. (O-lines take longer to develop and gel as a unit than any other position.)

 

It's still the WRs and RBs that stand out to me. The RB situation last year was alarming to me. Like I know there were some injuries and covid issues to deal with, but Held couldn't get anyone ready to play besides Mills? If we hadn't been stuck playing Wan'dale at RB, he'd probably still be here right now. I said in another thread, right now Held looks about like Keith Williams to me: lots of recruiting hype, but no production to show for it.

 

The WRs have seen absolutely disgusting attrition. Tyjon Lindsey, Jaevon McQuitty, and Keyshawn Johnson Jr were all 4* WRs in Riley's last class who bailed with little to no production. The WRs in Frost's first few classes haven't fared any better. Jaron Woodyard, Darien Chase, Demariyon Houston, Jamie Nance, Marcus Flemming - all guys who were 4* WR recruits or damn near it who have bailed. Wan'dale was our highest-rated recruit in some time, but without any other decent WRs it was easy for opposing defenses to key on him. And of course, now he's gone. That's no less than nine potential star WRs who should be playing for us right now, but aren't. NINE! Imagine that depth chart! But instead we've been stuck with leftovers.

 

And people wonder why our passing game has looked like dog s#!t at times. Hint: it ain't because of Martinez, it ain't because of Verduzco, it ain't because we run too many bubble screens, and it ain't because Frost needs to adjust his offense for the Big Ten.

 

I'd really, really like to know what went so horribly wrong in the receivers room. Dumping Walters in favor of Lubbick didn't really fix the problem. Considering that, I think it's fair to assign at least some of the blame to Frost. (I also largely blame him for the Illinois and Minnesota games last year - there's just no excuse.) But simply pointing the finger at Frost doesn't explain why attrition has been so much worse at WR than elsewhere - he's the head coach of the whole team, not just the receivers.

 

So what now? We've pulled in quite a few transfers at WR and RB, for obvious reasons. Will it help? RBs are probably the biggest mystery on the team heading into this season. We've got a group full of guys with lots of potential... and lots of injury history. It's probably not a question of who's the best RB on the team, but rather who can stay healthy. I would expect to see several different starters throughout the year, and an 'RB by committee' approach. It looks like the starting WRs will be Manning, Toure, and Martin. I think that should be a pretty solid starting group. Manning in particular looks exactly like the kind of deep threat we've been desperately missing the last two years. But I'm worried about him staying healthy, and the other starters for that matter, because I feel like we don't have the kind of depth that we really need behind them.

 

I've been wavering between seriously concerned and cautiously optimistic about the offense heading into this season. I feel like the potential is there for this to be an excellent offense. But I also think the margin of error is razor thin...

Well articulated.....

[SECHusker]

1) playcalling: frost is too flashy

2) execution of said playcalling

3) talent to execute said playcalling

 

[Cobra Kai]

Schemes should be based upon the skillsets you have.  Frost went his scheme, without his type of guys.  He got his type of guys and they got squashed in the B1G.  Now he's getting his guys (adapted for the B1G).  Bigger and stronger across the board.  He seems to have adjusted his scheme as he has adjusted his roster.

 

So long as he does that, the scheme will always be fine...in theory.  The play calling and execution, on the other hand, have been lousy for the most part.  That is putting it mildly.  

 

You can have the best plans, but if your guys can't execute it, it really doesn't matter...likewise, you can have the best guys, but if you have a crap scheme, you're going to fall flat on your face.  

[Toe]

Scheme will only get you so far. At some point, it's not about the Xs & Os, it's about the Jimmies & Joes.

[UniversalMartin]

8 hours ago, hunter49 said:

where does our offense fall down the most? Frost says his scheme is adequate, is it?

Without reading any following posts, my thought is: scheme.

 

Play calling follows scheme. Our scheme is 2 series deep with accompanying predictable play calling.

[In the Deed the Glory]

20 minutes ago, Toe said:

Scheme will only get you so far. At some point, it's not about the Xs & Os, it's about the Jimmies & Joes.

Thank you Mr. Switzer 

[Mavric]

6 hours ago, lo country said:

Contrary to peoples opinions, Frost has changed to a degree.  IMHO, he initially recruited exactly what he wanted and had at UCF.  The B1G is a completely different animal than the AAC.  He has spent his time since recruiting bigger/longer guys.  Guys who can bang at the LOS and actually start to win battles.  I think we will see Frost going more vertical in both the running and passing game.  

 

I guess people are going to continue to try to claim this no matter how many times it's shown to be false.

 

We simply didn't have many big bodies when Frost got here.  But he has consistently said and shown in his recruiting that we needed to get bigger.  Right from the start.

 

People claim that he has only recently discovered that he needed bigger linemen in the B1G.  But the first OL he signed was Will Canty who is 6-6 (though he didn't make it to campus).  In his first full class, he signed 6-9 Bryce Benhart, 6-7 Brant Banks, 6-7 Jimmy Fritzche, 6-6 Michael Lynn and 6-6 Matthew Anderson.  He initially recruited exactly what he wanted - guys with B1G frames.

 

Also in that first class - put together in two weeks - were several tall receivers in 6-6 Justin McGriff, 6-3 Katerian LeGrone, and 6-1 Andre Hunt.  It wasn't that he wasn't going after bigger receivers, it's just that the ones he was able to land in that short amount of time didn't work out.  Also in that very first class were 6-5 DE Casey Rogers, 6-3 DB Will Jackson, 6-3 DB CJ Smith, 6-3 DB Braxton Clark, 6-3 LB Caleb Tannor and 6-2 DB Cam Jones.  In a couple weeks he greatly increased the number of 6-3+ players we had on the team.

 

Along with the five OL who were at least 6-6 in that first full class, there were also 6-6 WR/TE Chris Hickman, 6-6 LB Jamin Graham, 6-6 DL Ty Robinson, 6-5 DL Mosai Newsom, 6-4 DL Jahkeem Green, 6-3 LB Garrett Nelson, 6-3 LB Jackson Hannah, 6-3 LB Nick Henrich, 6-3 LB Javin Wright and 6-3 LB Myles Farmer.  

 

It is true that we didn't manage to put any tall receivers on the field for a couple years.  But that wasn't because Frost didn't think he needed them.  He was after bigger bodies everywhere.  We just failed miserably to recruit receivers for FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS.  There were only two contributors in a five year stretch of classes from Riley through Frost - Spielman and Robinson.  They were both short and neither finished their career here.  But it wasn't from not wanting to recruit those type of players.

[Toe]

9 minutes ago, In the Deed the Glory said:

Thank you Mr. Switzer 

 

You're welcome.