Fordham Week Pressers

[Nebraska55fan]

16 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

 

As the World Turns. 

 Interesting- so the assistant strays from the false narrative to avoid looking like a boob.   Wish we would have some of that going on elsewhere in our country. 

[lo country]

As each day passes, it would appear that there are some issues going on within the walls of the stadium that are starting to come to light.....

Betts sitting for poor practice habits- Wouldn't/shouldn't this have come up during his recruiting

Lubick saying they had a plan if they came out in an even front

Frost being "late" to practice

Someone leaking the analyst practice to the press

Maybe, just maybe the culture problem is Frost........

 

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I agree….and especially in the first few years of trying to instill a culture. It’s too easy to look in from the outside and assume a guy with seemingly more natural talent is the better choice. None of us are at practice every day.

 

I’m starting to have my doubts that Frost & Co know how to do any of this but surely he is playing the guys he feels give the team the best chance to succeed. But there could be a gap between building the right long term culture and winning this week.

I was reminded recently of a story about the Callahan years.  A local lineman was on the team.  He said that Callahan recruited a highly rated player.  When he came in over the summer, he didn't want to lift.  The veteran players started getting all over him about lifting.  The staff went to THEM upset saying, he's talented enough, he doesn't need to lift.  The lineman said that internally, that was the start of the downfall.

 

I FIRMLY believe that attitude is what Frost has fought against since getting here.  Now, the results aren't anywhere close to what we want.  But, when I hear something like this about a player like Betts, I think back to this story and have to side on the side with the coaches.  

[TGHusker]

14 minutes ago, Nebraska55fan said:

 Interesting- so the assistant strays from the false narrative to avoid looking like a boob.   Wish we would have some of that going on elsewhere in our country. 

that is going to make for great team cohesiveness.  

[lo country]

5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I was reminded recently of a story about the Callahan years.  A local lineman was on the team.  He said that Callahan recruited a highly rated player.  When he came in over the summer, he didn't want to lift.  The veteran players started getting all over him about lifting.  The staff went to THEM upset saying, he's talented enough, he doesn't need to lift.  The lineman said that internally, that was the start of the downfall.

 

I FIRMLY believe that attitude is what Frost has fought against since getting here.  Now, the results aren't anywhere close to what we want.  But, when I hear something like this about a player like Betts, I think back to this story and have to side on the side with the coaches.  

This is my complaint with the staff and lack if depth ie receiver, RB, QB etc...Why are these issues not identified prior to offering the kid?  We throw out so many offers are we even doing due diligence or are we just concerned "getting guys here" and then "fixing them"........If we can't plan for a wrinkle by an opposing team, I feel confident in saying that we are not "fixing kids" when they get here.

 

And back to culture and leadership.  The team should address this.  The team should straighten this out if it's an issue.  But it's hard to lead when there is no depth (see point above).  Maybe Frost is trying to avoid another locker room issue aa Mo?  Constant mistakes, inability to fix those, having a captain who's claim to fame is being a TO machine....Hard to find peer guidance in this.

[Undone]

8 minutes ago, lo country said:

Why are these issues not identified prior to offering the kid?

 

I feel fairly sure you might be misinterpreting something or extrapolating something too far.

 

What it seems like is going on is that Frost basically looks at who starts at WR judging by effort level during the whole week of practice. Pretty sure that 8/22 - 8/27 was looked at for who would start. It seems like he's looking at effort level in practice and it is just my opinion that it's possibly primarily run blocking effort.

 

I don't think it's behavioral or anything like that where it could even be tangibly measured from the kid's high school football career.

 

Anyway. I am not sure if Manning was in for the entire first half...then has a great first down conversion with YAC on a nice crossing route in the 3rd quarter. If I'm right on this theory, how in the hell does a 6'4", 220 lb. physical specimen like Manning not get playing time early in the 1st quarter over a kid like Wyatt Liewer? That part makes absolutely no sense.

[junior4949]

After reading what Lubick said, does anyone think there's a chance Frost is just playing with the media right now?  If one really thinks about it, both could be right.  Let's say they had two play sheets.  One was for an odd front and one was for an even front.  Frost was exactly right that 50% of the play sheets got thrown out the window when Illinois came out in an even front.  

[Nebraska55fan]

34 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I was reminded recently of a story about the Callahan years.  A local lineman was on the team.  He said that Callahan recruited a highly rated player.  When he came in over the summer, he didn't want to lift.  The veteran players started getting all over him about lifting.  The staff went to THEM upset saying, he's talented enough, he doesn't need to lift.  The lineman said that internally, that was the start of the downfall.

 

I FIRMLY believe that attitude is what Frost has fought against since getting here.  Now, the results aren't anywhere close to what we want.  But, when I hear something like this about a player like Betts, I think back to this story and have to side on the side with the coaches.  

 I don't know how widespread this is at NU, however LOTS of High School kids come in VERY coddled by their High School coaches. 

 

Really talented players who can make BIG differences in the W/L columns of that coaches team. They just threaten not to play if they aren't given special treatment. Even respected coaches you would be shocked to hear- have done it. Not coming to practice, not lifting.  Crazy stories, kids simply refusing to run sprints, jogging through them- showing up late. Not going into a game unless a specific play is called for them. Some of it comes from kids who people think are solid- some aren't behind the scenes. Some kids play the game- and get the coach by the short hairs and get their way. 

 

They did the same thing in youth ball. Parents and everyone telling them how great they are. By the time they get to HS, they are little monsters.  It definitely is out there. 

 

A buddy of mine in Florida who won multiple state titles moved to Alabama to coach because now they have a transfer rule in Florida where kids can transfer in if they are in an adjoining district. He runs a VERY tight ship. He doesnt let kids miss practice if they go to school etc His rivals promised the kids less work, very flexible etc. He lost over 20 kids from a deep playoff team. 

[Born N Bled Red]

7 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

I feel fairly sure you might be misinterpreting something or extrapolating something too far.

 

What it seems like is going on is that Frost basically looks at who starts at WR judging by effort level during the whole week of practice. Pretty sure that 8/22 - 8/27 was looked at for who would start. It seems like he's looking at effort level in practice and it is just my opinion that it's possibly primarily run blocking effort.

 

I don't think it's behavioral or anything like that where it could even be tangibly measured from the kid's high school football career.

 

Anyway. I am not sure if Manning was in for the entire first half...then has a great first down conversion with YAC on a nice crossing route in the 3rd quarter. If I'm right on this theory, how in the hell does a 6'4", 220 lb. physical specimen like Manning not get playing time early in the 1st quarter over a kid like Wyatt Liewer? That part makes absolutely no sense.

 

Answer: And this is hypothetical, I have no inside knowledge. In practice Manning and Betts go hard 50% of practice reps and relax/ half arse the other 50%. Frost is trying to build a culture of 100%; 100% of the time, so he rewards the less physically gifted kid who goes as hard as he can every single rep in practice. In theory a less physically gifted kid who gives his all and is where he is supposed to be 100% of the time is a better asset on the field than a more gifted kid who is only where he is supposed to be 50% of the time. 

[Husker in WI]

I really don't think Lubick's comments are inconsistent with Frost's. IMO Frost tried to shift more of the blame to the coaches and away from the players, but also can't make himself get up there and say "it's my fault" very convincingly so they're stressing different parts of the problem in their answers. But you can expect an odd front and rep mostly against an odd front (what Frost said), while still planning for and having a call sheet for an even front (what Lubick said). He said we threw out half the gameplan, not all of it. 

 

Now it's probably dumb to have that much of your gameplan dependent on the defensive front playing a new staff, and it's embarrassing to come out and look that unprepared. It's the coaches job to prepare the players. But I don't think there's that much of a disconnect - Frost emphasized the fact that they focused on attacking a defense we didn't play, and Lubick pointed out that we did still have things planned for the defense we played. Some of these things are being blown way out of proportion because we lost a winnable game.

[Undone]

13 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

Answer: And this is hypothetical, I have no inside knowledge. In practice Manning and Betts go hard 50% of practice reps and relax/ half arse the other 50%. Frost is trying to build a culture of 100%; 100% of the time, so he rewards the less physically gifted kid who goes as hard as he can every single rep in practice.

 

At this point I don't even think it's all that speculative. Frost said either last year or in 2019 during a mid-week presser "We have a saying around here: 'If you don't block, you don't get the rock.'"

Ok. Fair enough. But if this is what's going on and Manning or Betts could be making a significantly bigger difference out there on Saturday's than a couple of these other guys, I guess we might say that Frost is going to really live & die by this creed.

 

Kind of seems like maybe it isn't working, but maybe I'm wrong there.

[DefenderAO]

15 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Answer: And this is hypothetical, I have no inside knowledge. In practice Manning and Betts go hard 50% of practice reps and relax/ half arse the other 50%. Frost is trying to build a culture of 100%; 100% of the time, so he rewards the less physically gifted kid who goes as hard as he can every single rep in practice. In theory a less physically gifted kid who gives his all and is where he is supposed to be 100% of the time is a better asset on the field than a more gifted kid who is only where he is supposed to be 50% of the time. 

The above is a fractional reason he will not remain employed.

[Born N Bled Red]

15 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

At this point I don't even think it's all that speculative. Frost said either last year or in 2019 during a mid-week presser "We have a saying around here: 'If you don't block, you don't get the rock.'"

Ok. Fair enough. But if this is what's going on and Manning or Betts could be making a significantly bigger difference out there on Saturday's than a couple of these other guys, I guess we might say that Frost is going to really live & die by this creed.

 

Kind of seems like maybe it isn't working, but maybe I'm wrong there.

 

If Frost plays these guys in spite of their practice habits his detractors will flip the story to, "He lost the team by not holding gifted players accountable." That was already a gripe with Washington. Frost is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[Undone]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

If Frost plays these guys in spite of their practice habits his detractors will flip the story to, "He lost the team by not holding gifted players accountable." That was already a gripe with Washington. Frost is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

Which I think is kind of just a personal preference thing as a fan. I personally don't care what happens off the field as long as we're not cheating. I don't care what a kid's attitude is in practice.

 

I care about winning games. And whatever Frost is doing right now isn't winning games. Hopefully everybody's on the same page on that point.

[Born N Bled Red]

29 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Which I think is kind of just a personal preference thing as a fan. I personally don't care what happens off the field as long as we're not cheating. I don't care what a kid's attitude is in practice.

 

I care about winning games. And whatever Frost is doing right now isn't winning games. Hopefully everybody's on the same page on that point.

 

I'm willing to see how the season plays out. I've seen teams lose early season games by a 45 point rule just to come back and avenge that loss on the way to a championship season. Sometimes things just snowball.