Logan Smothers to start v Iowa

[Frustrated]

8 hours ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Steve Pederson, and Bill Callahan happened.

 

We're getting back there . Our guys,  even my favorite two linemen Corcoran and Benhart, are still very young with a chance to become much better with better coaching. 

Mmmmm'kay. That gets us to 2007. Add maybe 4, 5 years...we are at 2012. It's almost 2022. I still cannot accept not having a big, athletic offensive line.

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, runningblind said:

That would have been interesting.  I've always seen Frost try to hide injuries and use it as an advantage, now all of a sudden he doesn't?  I would love to know the thought process.

It very well could simply be that he knew he would be answering questions about 2AM all week (like normal) so, instead of hiding and lying about everything, just get it out in the open so everyone can move on.

[thexyz]

4 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Mmmmm'kay. That gets us to 2007. Add maybe 4, 5 years...we are at 2012. It's almost 2022. I still cannot accept not having a big, athletic offensive line.

You want a big, athletic offensive line. They're coming together. Some of it's players and some of it's coaching in my opinion. Got to do better with both. 

[ZRod]

43 minutes ago, runningblind said:

That would have been interesting.  I've always seen Frost try to hide injuries and use it as an advantage, now all of a sudden he doesn't?  I would love to know the thought process.

Conspiracy confirmed. Adrian will be playing on Friday.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Mmmmm'kay. That gets us to 2007. Add maybe 4, 5 years...we are at 2012. It's almost 2022. I still cannot accept not having a big, athletic offensive line.

Then there was this fella named Mike...

 

We do have a very big OL, they're tall and heavy. They're also inexperienced and maybe not as athletically gifted as we had hoped. 

[runningblind]

2 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Conspiracy confirmed. Adrian will be playing on Friday.

 

 

 

Then there was this fella named Mike...

 

We do have a very big OL, they're tall and heavy. They're also inexperienced and maybe not as athletically gifted as we had hoped. 

Some of that could be the S&C philosophy we employ that almost no one else still uses.  Doesn't emphasize flexibility and range of motion, mostly static strength which is an old way of doing things.

[All Hail Herbie]

17 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

You do realize that the line needs to be involved with both running and passing....good.

But, a pass gets the ball past the LOS so they don't have to open up a hole.

Is that really true?

 

Again, I go back to a fundamental point, the lack of strategic vision for this team, amongst coaches and some fans, is a contributor to our problems.  Case in point, fixing 2021 problems for 2022.  You are already a year behind when you cite OL and Special Teams as the primary issues for 2022.  Who will be a "reliable" #1 receiving option with the departure of Toure?  How do you replace all of the key seniors and super seniors on the defense?  Who replaces Allen as a reliable receiving tight end?  2021 is over and there are a new set of problems to deal with...

 

[All Hail Herbie]

15 hours ago, Hayseed said:

Ron Brown has coached some great RBs…. Let him call the plays when Frost runs out of ideas in the red zone.

When a team is foundering, the coaches and fans should be open to all ideas.  It astonishes me that there are some within this fan base that still believe that despite the results that we have optimized our potential.  

 

Agree about being open to Coach Brown making a few calls.  Try it in a meaningless game on Friday and see how it works in game action.  

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, All Hail Herbie said:

Is that really true?

 

Again, I go back to a fundamental point, the lack of strategic vision for this team, amongst coaches and some fans, is a contributor to our problems.  Case in point, fixing 2021 problems for 2022.  You are already a year behind when you cite OL and Special Teams as the primary issues for 2022.  Who will be a "reliable" #1 receiving option with the departure of Toure?  How do you replace all of the key seniors and super seniors on the defense?  Who replaces Allen as a reliable receiving tight end?  2021 is over and there are a new set of problems to deal with...

 

Are you asking if the line needs to be involved with both running and passing?  Really?

 

And, to your last paragraph, you're changing the subject.  Yes, the O line and special teams are a problem.  We have established that and agree.  My point is that the game planning and philosophy they are working with would change if we had a good O line and RB play.  This year, they played to the strengths of the team.  That's actually what good coaches do.  Running the ball with RBs has not been the strength.  So, they changed to what is.  Next year, with new position coaches in those areas, if those areas improve, you will see more RB runs and more production from those RB runs.

[All Hail Herbie]

3 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

Just a product of the times really. The game has evolved 

Times are different, but the game is not.  Avoid penalties, turnovers, and tactical errors and your probability of success remains high.  The Chiefs are a great example of offensive diversity.  TE red zone runs, WR pop passes, end arounds, etc. are plays that keep a defense guessing with the run game, while protecting the football.  

[All Hail Herbie]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Are you asking if the line needs to be involved with both running and passing?  Really?

 

And, to your last paragraph, you're changing the subject.  Yes, the O line and special teams are a problem.  We have established that and agree.  My point is that the game planning and philosophy they are working with would change if we had a good O line and RB play.  This year, they played to the strengths of the team.  That's actually what good coaches do.  Running the ball with RBs has not been the strength.  So, they changed to what is.  Next year, with new position coaches in those areas, if those areas improve, you will see more RB runs and more production from those RB runs.

Sarcasm my friend...

 

No need to change the subject; the problems with this program.  Tactical vs. Strategic.  Your view is one that is standard for many optimistic fans of this regime, upgrade a few positions from a talent perspective (OL / Special Teams) and the team will have success.  And without a doubt, that view is very appealing because it plays to the concept of hope.  The rushing game is simply a microcosm of this larger discussion. 

 

The problem with that thinking is that the situation is not static, but dynamic.  You are trying to fill an existing hole in the dam while the dam itself is crumbling.  

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, All Hail Herbie said:

Sarcasm my friend...

 

No need to change the subject; the problems with this program.  Tactical vs. Strategic.  Your view is one that is standard for many optimistic fans of this regime, upgrade a few positions from a talent perspective (OL / Special Teams) and the team will have success.  And without a doubt, that view is very appealing because it plays to the concept of hope.  The rushing game is simply a microcosm of this larger discussion. 

 

The problem with that thinking is that the situation is not static, but dynamic.  You are trying to fill an existing hole in the dam while the dam itself is crumbling.  

No, this isn't me being an optimistic fan of this regime.

 

It's reality.  Our O line and RB play has sucked.  That's why we have been seemed to be a passing team (not really) and heavy on QB runs (which are heavily weighted by scrambles and sacks.  That's where this discussion started, right?  You want an offense that isn't relying so much on QB runs and instead, on RB runs.  Well...so does everyone else, including the coaching staff.  But, when that's not working, you have to try to produce offense somewhere else, and that's what they did.

 

Hopefully, that changes with improvement in those two areas.  It's logical to think that our RBs will be more of the offensive production, if we improve the run blocking and RB coaching.  Is that me being optimistic?  No, because I have no idea if those two areas will improve next year or not yet.

[ZRod]

3 hours ago, runningblind said:

Some of that could be the S&C philosophy we employ that almost no one else still uses.  Doesn't emphasize flexibility and range of motion, mostly static strength which is an old way of doing things.

I mean we could get into a whole huge debate about new age and old school strength development, but I also don't know exactly what Dawson has them doing. No doubt they are stronger than 4 years ago though.

 

Static strength can still help develop flexibility and ROM if you use proper form and full ROM on lifts. The guys in the 90s were pretty athletic and flexible pulling and getting down field and Boyd probably had them on a similar program to what we do now.

 

I think most of our OL issues are experience and coaching/technique related. Things like having a low hat during run blocking, keeping your feet moving after you make contact, not letting defenders get into your body but alos not lunging at them, anticipating their moves, staying with blocks long enough.

[All Hail Herbie]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

No, this isn't me being an optimistic fan of this regime.

 

It's reality.  Our O line and RB play has sucked.  That's why we have been seemed to be a passing team (not really) and heavy on QB runs (which are heavily weighted by scrambles and sacks.  That's where this discussion started, right?  You want an offense that isn't relying so much on QB runs and instead, on RB runs.  Well...so does everyone else, including the coaching staff.  But, when that's not working, you have to try to produce offense somewhere else, and that's what they did.

 

Hopefully, that changes with improvement in those two areas.  It's logical to think that our RBs will be more of the offensive production, if we improve the run blocking and RB coaching.  Is that me being optimistic?  No, because I have no idea if those two areas will improve next year or not yet.

The optimism I reference is borne of simplicity.  Fundamentally, a simple solution to a problem (i.e. personnel) gives one hope that success is within grasp.  Focusing that strategic vs. tactical view on the matter of greater offensive balance presents a good case study.  I argue in favor of a more creative overall offensive approach (utilizing backs / receivers / tight ends) as a means to generate rushing, limit turnovers, and most importantly, limit the QB-centric approach.  Your argument is in effect that we already possess offensive diversity with our current scheme, it is working, albeit with a personnel deficiency (OL).  

 

If you are correct with your theory, than the addition of a few notable OL transfers this year should turn 3-9 into a 7-5 or 8-4 team.  I would certainly welcome a few names if they are already signed and I missed it.

 

If I am correct, and despite the personnel additions, the team will remain sub-0.500 as the overall offensive approach is deficient. 

[suh_fan93]

 

[thexyz]

6 hours ago, ZRod said:

I mean we could get into a whole huge debate about new age and old school strength development, but I also don't know exactly what Dawson has them doing. No doubt they are stronger than 4 years ago though.

 

Static strength can still help develop flexibility and ROM if you use proper form and full ROM on lifts. The guys in the 90s were pretty athletic and flexible pulling and getting down field and Boyd probably had them on a similar program to what we do now.

 

I think most of our OL issues are experience and coaching/technique related. Things like having a low hat during run blocking, keeping your feet moving after you make contact, not letting defenders get into your body but alos not lunging at them, anticipating their moves, staying with blocks long enough.

All good points. There's a lot to consider. I'd just add how significant it is how they function as a unit, for them to jell. Getting their assignments done absent thinking altogether as one.  There's so many aspects to it in addition to strength, athleticism, etc. I too think that much of it is experience related coupled with coaching.