Power Football

[ColoradoHusk]

1 minute ago, Undone said:

That’s where I’ve been headed with this thread the whole time also. When your first down running production is bad, it will almost always make your run pass ratio higher, because then you are in much more third and mediums and third and longs.

 

The statement “we should just run more” is complicated when your line more or less sucks.

I'm not sure about the rest of the season, but NU averaged over 8 yards per first down against Iowa. That is more than just running the ball, but 8 yards on first down is a phenomenal measure. I have a belief to get first down as soon as possible and don't get to 3rd downs, but that's just me. It's just another item where the stats behind NU don't make sense to the actual score of the game. 

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

Thanks - hadn’t remembered what Frost had said in that next Monday’s presser.

 

I hate to say this but games like that show how dangerous it can be when we put the game all on Adrian’s pocket passing ability. He was off in that game.

 

But I also wound up not understanding why we didn’t at least TRY to hand it off to our RBs more once it was evident his accuracy was off in that first half.

It's one of those games where Smothers should have been given a shot.

[Undone]

53 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

It's just another item where the stats behind NU don't make sense to the actual score of the game.

 

Agreed.

 

And to the original topic, the new OC definitely has his work cut out for him to figure out how to punch the ball into the end zone once we're in the red zone. I agree that we need more power football there.

Frost has left quite a few points on the board since 2019 from not being able to pound it into the end zone once he's inside the 5. That's actually a fairly "big ticket" item to get fixed.

[Undone]

55 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

I'm not sure about the rest of the season, but NU averaged over 8 yards per first down against Iowa. That is more than just running the ball, but 8 yards on first down is a phenomenal measure. I have a belief to get first down as soon as possible and don't get to 3rd downs, but that's just me. It's just another item where the stats behind NU don't make sense to the actual score of the game. 

 

Husk - I agree with you. And I've been saying this: The scheme is good. The scheme moves the chains pretty well, and the data supports this notion.

 

False starts, failing to punch it into the end zone once we got inside the 10, and turnovers hurt this offense the most this season IMO. Just going power doesn't fix most of these issues - except hopefully the red zone scoring.

[KCBuc]

13 hours ago, Undone said:

What would your reaction be though if we ran the 1995 playbook to a ‘T’ but went 3-9 next year?

 

Still just happy to see the old scheme inside Memorial Stadium nevertheless?

I think Frost would fail because he is not committed to the run as demonstrated in a few of the losses. He panicks  and goes pass happy. He would need to do some hybrid model of old school power and the current system. This is what I thought we were getting when he was hired. 
3-9 sucks regardless of your system but running the ball is the way to win in the B10. That’s one of my frustrations with Frost in short yardage. They line up in shotgun and can’t get the tough yard(s). They play soft and don’t put a hat on a hat. If they ran the option to perfection, they would do better than 3-9 IMO

[ColoradoHusk]

21 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Husk - I agree with you. And I've been saying this: The scheme is good. The scheme moves the chains pretty well, and the data supports this notion.

 

False starts, failing to punch it into the end zone once we got inside the 10, and turnovers hurt this offense the most this season IMO. Just going power doesn't fix most of these issues - except hopefully the red zone scoring.

Yeah, you and I have agreed more than disagreed with things.  I just think that people like to fall back on what they remember working when NU was dominating college football in the 90's, and think that NU just needs to do that.  That's way easier said than done.  Overall, I think the current offensive scheme is sound, but needs some tweaks and improvements (thus the new offensive staff being hired).

 

I also think that Frost needs to take a look at how the 3 phases of the game work together, which I think that's where Frost has failed miserably.  While I am not a big fan of how teams like Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota play offense, their offenses work in concert with how they play defense and special teams.  It's all part of one overall "team" philosophy.  I think Frost has shown 1 offensive philosophy, let Chinander decide on the defensive philosophy, and have absolutely no special teams philosophy.  Supposedly, Frost is going to become a more CEO-coach to oversee the entire team, but I think it's too little, too late to make significant improvements going forward.

[Undone]

51 minutes ago, KCBuc said:

3-9 sucks regardless of your system but running the ball is the way to win in the B10.

 

I am not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing...but here's my take on that. Because I think a lot of people have this same line of thinking.

 

It's the assumption that because Iowa & Wisconsin are pretty much always winning 9 games a year with their low-risk offensive schemes that it's what we should do.

 

But imagine a scenario where we get a QB that throws the ball well and our offensive line blocks well enough that a guy like Yant can start routinely having 100 yard games? With Frost's scheme & playbook I really think we'd start running circles around the B1G West.

 

We even saw some of this against Wisconsin; probably the only way we put up 28 points on them was by throwing as much as we did because their front seven is just so stout. Yes, Martinez had the really costly 2nd INT. But we had a perfect 50/50 run/pass split in that game and I really doubt we put up four scores on them if we had ran the ball 65% of the time.

 

But, next season is next season. I think the playbook we roll out is going to largely depend on who's starting at QB next year, and in my opinion we have absolutely no idea who that's going to be yet.

 

 

[Toe]

8 minutes ago, Undone said:

It's the assumption that because Iowa & Wisconsin are pretty much always winning 9 games a year with their low-risk offensive schemes that it's what we should do.

1 hour ago, ColoradoHusk said:

I just think that people like to fall back on what they remember working when NU was dominating college football in the 90's, and think that NU just needs to do that

 

I think there's also a lot of people who kinda misremember or misunderstand Osborne's offense. It was run-heavy, but it wasn't a grind it out, 4 yards and a cloud of dust kind of deal. You never heard announcers say thing like "Nebraska's offense isn't built for comebacks" like you might with Wisconsin or Iowa. The name 'Scoring Explosion' was coined for a reason! It was all about forcing the defense to play their assignments perfectly - because if they didn't it would be a big play - and using smart play calling to set them up and bait them into screwing up.

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, Toe said:

You never heard announcers say thing like "Nebraska's offense isn't built for comebacks"

Really?  How old are you?  If you were watching, you must not ever remember announcers in bowl games in the late 80s when Miami or FSU would get up a couple TDs on us.

 

7 straight bowl losses.

[Ulty]

11 minutes ago, Toe said:

 

I think there's also a lot of people who kinda misremember or misunderstand Osborne's offense. It was run-heavy, but it wasn't a grind it out, 4 yards and a cloud of dust kind of deal. You never heard announcers say thing like "Nebraska's offense isn't built for comebacks" like you might with Wisconsin or Iowa. 

 

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Really?  How old are you?  If you were watching, you must not ever remember announcers in bowl games in the late 80s when Miami or FSU would get up a couple TDs on us.

 

 

Hell, even in the 96 Fiesta Bowl, when Florida goes up 10-6 in the first quarter, the broadcasters said something like, "Now, it will be important for Nebraska to not get too far behind in this game" because our offense couldn't keep pace with Florida's fun and gun. 

[Toe]

13 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Hell, even in the 96 Fiesta Bowl, when Florida goes up 10-6 in the first quarter, the broadcasters said something like, "Now, it will be important for Nebraska to not get too far behind in this game" because our offense couldn't keep pace with Florida's fun and gun. 

 

Yeah, right before we hung 62 on them, lol. I suppose there were some clueless announcers back then, too, but that's about the announcers, not Osborne's offense.

[Undone]

When you have the 1st & 3rd best I-Backs in school history on the team, along with one of the best offensive lines in school history, you can put up 62 points with doing probably just about anything.

 

In the same way that a Wisconsin squad that had Melvin Gordon, James White, and Montee Ball and their monster O-Line hung 70 points and 640 yards of offense while running 50 rushes and only 10 passes on a Bo Pelini defense.

 

But I still think your original point has a lot of merit, @Toe.

[ColoradoHusk]

In the back half of the 80s and early 90s, there was always talk after the bowl games of Osborne being "behind the times" and not being able to compete with the big boys because of his antiquated, running offense.  This was because NU would roll through their season until facing OU/Colorado in conference and then Miami/Florida State in the bowl game and that's when the offense would get shut down (and NU's D would get exposed).

 

As Undone pointed out, NU upgraded the recruiting at QB & I-Back, had the o-linemen improve their quickness and stamina (to go along with their power), and made wholesale changes in the defense to combat the passing offenses which NU started facing.

 

Based on this season (especially this past week) in college football, there is a thought that "Power Football" is returning to reign supreme in college football.  A lot of this is based on Michigan finally beating Ohio State, along with other results this season.  I don't know if this is a one-year blip or if this trend will continue, because it was only last season where all four playoff teams were running "pass happy" offenses led by amazing QB's and WR's, and LSU was running through college football in 2019 with it's own "modern offense" which Joe Brady then took to the NFL.

[Undone]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Based on this season (especially this past week) in college football, there is a thought that "Power Football" is returning to reign supreme in college football.  A lot of this is based on Michigan finally beating Ohio State, along with other results this season.  I don't know if this is a one-year blip or if this trend will continue, because it was only last season where all four playoff teams were running "pass happy" offenses led by amazing QB's and WR's, and LSU was running through college football in 2019 with it's own "modern offense" which Joe Brady then took to the NFL.

 

Agreed.

 

I think Michigan's staff started to really get things setup well for them this season. And their offensive line started to click as well.

 

Then they had the tape on how Oregon had beaten Ohio State early in the year - and they put together a similar game plan and just like in the Oregon game, Ohio State's front seven could not get off their blocks and were the less physical team.

 

I really dislike Jim Harbaugh; I think he's a cry baby and an extremely sore loser on a level that's juvenile. But, I enjoyed watching what they did to Ohio State in that game.

 

*Edit: Isn't it crazy that Michigan put up 32 points again us, but Ohio State let them hang 42?

 

[BigRedBuster]

4 hours ago, Toe said:

 

Yeah, right before we hung 62 on them, lol. I suppose there were some clueless announcers back then, too, but that's about the announcers, not Osborne's offense.

Ummm….they were going by years of TOs offense getting behind OU or Florida teams and not being able to come back. 
 

You are remembering 1983 and the 90s. There were lots of other years.