Last Coaching position Quandry

[Red Five]

As someone (teach?) has stated before, STs has been so bad that Frost has almost backed himself into having to hire a ST coordinator needed or not.

[runningblind]

48 minutes ago, Red Five said:

As someone (teach?) has stated before, STs has been so bad that Frost has almost backed himself into having to hire a ST coordinator needed or not.

That's where I'm at.  Hire a coach or it still doesn't appear he gets it. Then if we have ST issues the first couple weeks everyone and their dog will be all over him for not placing enough importance on it. If you hire an STC and still have issues, at least it appears you're trying.  

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Undone said:

But it's feeling less and less likely that there will be any more major shifting in order to make space for the dedicated coach.

 

I wouldn't say that.  It's pretty common for assistant coaching changes to happen after signing day.  I've always thought that was pretty crappy for the recruits, but it's just the way it works.

 

I don't expect any more major coaching announcements to come out now for quite a while.  It really doesn't matter right now if the RB/ST coaches are announced now or a month from now.

[thexyz]

21 minutes ago, runningblind said:

That's where I'm at.  Hire a coach or it still doesn't appear he gets it. Then if we have ST issues the first couple weeks everyone and their dog will be all over him for not placing enough importance on it. If you hire an STC and still have issues, at least it appears you're trying.  

I can see scenarios where aspects of special teams are divided among a couple of coaches. I know that it doesn't mean that we are neglecting running backs if there's not a dedicated coach there. Depending on the circumstances, the particular persons, a RB/ST or RB/TE combo could work. 

 

The bottom line is that special teams definitely needs attention and improvement. I don't care how the issues get addressed and taken care of as long as they do. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

If your dream is playing in the NFL, being a special teams gunner or returner increases your chances hugely.

 

You're not going to make the team as a starting RB, WR, DB or Safety. At least not yet. But they need bodies for special teams, and every Sunday a starter gets hurt and a back-up gets elevated. The guys who make themselves invaluable on special teams are in the best position to be back-ups. 

 

So not only do special teams win or lose games, they're also an asset to an NFL career. 

 

Maybe they shouldn't be dead bottom on the priority list. 

[San Diego Husker]

On 12/9/2021 at 1:46 PM, BigRedBuster said:

And, nobody will ever convince me their annalists aren't taking time to actually coach.  You know....like we got in trouble for.

yeah, that was sour grapes with someone who got let go.  Pure revenge is all that is.  IF the NCAA ever showed their backbone and audit all top 25 schools for this nearly, if not all, would be in violation of that rule.

[Blackshirt316]

I remember a few years ago we had a special teams coach who had 30+ years of special teams coaching experience in college and the NFL and people were adamant that we didn't need a special teams coach. Now we do at the expense of not having a runningbacks coach no less.

 

Simple fact is special teams is about team accountability and desire. You don't gain anything from a coach that an analyst can't do through film and technology. But the coaches have to care about that. You don't need a special teams coach to go over special teams in film review and prep. It's about the teams overall attention to detail not having a guy stand there with a whistle.

 

Having Busch called a special teams coach vs. A special teams analyst makes zero difference. The only difference comes when Frost decides its worth actually emphasizing. 

 

A good start would be to make special teams non optional and to devote even a little time in film reviews highlighting guys doing well and guys doing poorly. 

 

[runningblind]

28 minutes ago, Blackshirt316 said:

I remember a few years ago we had a special teams coach who had 30+ years of special teams coaching experience in college and the NFL and people were adamant that we didn't need a special teams coach. Now we do at the expense of not having a runningbacks coach no less.

 

Simple fact is special teams is about team accountability and desire. You don't gain anything from a coach that an analyst can't do through film and technology. But the coaches have to care about that. You don't need a special teams coach to go over special teams in film review and prep. It's about the teams overall attention to detail not having a guy stand there with a whistle.

 

Having Busch called a special teams coach vs. A special teams analyst makes zero difference. The only difference comes when Frost decides its worth actually emphasizing. 

 

A good start would be to make special teams non optional and to devote even a little time in film reviews highlighting guys doing well and guys doing poorly. 

 

An analyst can't coach in practice or games so someone else has to correct mistakes in practice, run through drills and make in game adjustments.  Frost would have to prove, as you say, that he can get that organized without a dedicated coach. That's the point however, that things have been so horrible that having someone be dedicated only to ST feels like the only way for THIS coaching staff to improve ST.  I agree with you it can be done if all coaches on a staff emphasize it, but we have zero evidence that Scott Frost and THIS staff can do that without a dedicated person. They would actually have to make it the #1 team priority and I just don't see that happening.

 

Also, people keep bringing up Bruce Reed and how bad things were then but that is not true. We were ranked low 30s during Riley's tenure. We have been 109+ in Frost's four years. Those are very different things and it is costing us multiple wins every year. That is why folks like me insist on a dedicated coach to prove that he actually is taking this seriously.  If he doesn’t, I am not holding my breath for actual improvement until I see it.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overallst/2017

[lo country]

19 minutes ago, runningblind said:

An analyst can't coach in practice or games so someone else has to correct mistakes in practice, run through drills and make in game adjustments.  Frost would have to prove, as you say, that he can get that organized without a dedicated coach. That's the point however, that things have been so horrible that having someone be dedicated only to ST feels like the only way for THIS coaching staff to improve ST.  I agree with you it can be done if all coaches on a staff emphasize it, but we have zero evidence that Scott Frost and THIS staff can do that without a dedicated person. They would actually have to make it the #1 team priority and I just don't see that happening.

 

Also, people keep bringing up Bruce Reed and how bad things were then but that is not true. We were ranked low 30s during Riley's tenure. We have been 109+ in Frost's four years. Those are very different things and it is costing us multiple wins every year. That is why folks like me insist on a dedicated coach to prove that he actually is taking this seriously.  If he doesn’t, I am not holding my breath for actual improvement until I see it.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overallst/2017

IMHO, the fastest way to improve our record is to improve ST play.  No new scheme, techniques, portal transfer guys etc.....Just hold the guys on the roster accountable.  Don't use ST as a way to reward walk-ons and guys down the depth chart playing time.  Just have the guys on the roster pull their heads out of their a$$es.  How many more games (or jobs) does our lack of ST attention have to cost.  

[NoLongerN]

3 minutes ago, lo country said:

IMHO, the fastest way to improve our record is to improve ST play.  No new scheme, techniques, portal transfer guys etc.....Just hold the guys on the roster accountable.  Don't use ST as a way to reward walk-ons and guys down the depth chart playing time.  Just have the guys on the roster pull their heads out of their a$$es.  How many more games (or jobs) does our lack of ST attention have to cost.  

Yes, I'm first and foremost for that.  We have to the "k" out of kNebraska.

[Comish]

2 minutes ago, lo country said:

IMHO, the fastest way to improve our record is to improve ST play.  No new scheme, techniques, portal transfer guys etc.....Just hold the guys on the roster accountable.  Don't use ST as a way to reward walk-ons and guys down the depth chart playing time.  Just have the guys on the roster pull their heads out of their a$$es.  How many more games (or jobs) does our lack of ST attention have to cost.  

 

2 minutes ago, lo country said:

IMHO, the fastest way to improve our record is to improve ST play.  No new scheme, techniques, portal transfer guys etc.....Just hold the guys on the roster accountable.  Don't use ST as a way to reward walk-ons and guys down the depth chart playing time.  Just have the guys on the roster pull their heads out of their a$$es.  How many more games (or jobs) does our lack of ST attention have to cost.  

The elephant in the room is........If Busch is the ST guy, why the hesitation in announcing it? He is already on campus and recruiting. That delay would seem to suggest that HCSF has not yet fully committed to a dedicated ST position (and I understand the myriad possibilities in combining job titles with the 9 coach limit.  I'm guessing that he will eventually LIST himself as the titular running backs coach and let interns and (to the extent allowable) analysts to the details.  All of this  could change if other staff defections occur. None of this is new information, but seems like a plausible summary at this point.

[lo country]

4 minutes ago, Comish said:

 

The elephant in the room is........If Busch is the ST guy, why the hesitation in announcing it? He is already on campus and recruiting. That delay would seem to suggest that HCSF has not yet fully committed to a dedicated ST position (and I understand the myriad possibilities in combining job titles with the 9 coach limit.  I'm guessing that he will eventually LIST himself as the titular running backs coach and let interns and (to the extent allowable) analysts to the details.  All of this  could change if other staff defections occur. None of this is new information, but seems like a plausible summary at this point.

Great point about Busch.  I know he was here when Cally was the coach, but our ST and safety play was not the issue.  Why wait?  What great ST coach is still coaching.  I guess I (and maybe others) are going on the premise that we know or assume the conditions placed on Trev were predicated on wins.  Maybe not.  Who knows.  I guess if my boss told me to fix the issues or be fired, I would look at the easiest to the most complicated.  IMHO, ST, (WR, QB, RB) OL.....OL the hardest by far.  The skill guys are all pretty close.  But a wide chasm between ST and OL.  Throw in Whipple, a pass first guy and pass pro is our  worst OL trait, and it makes improving them in 1 year a HUGE task.  But dedicate some time to ST's and we might get the magical wins we think Frost needs.  

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I'd like Kevin Faulk for RBs

[runningblind]

33 minutes ago, Comish said:

 

The elephant in the room is........If Busch is the ST guy, why the hesitation in announcing it? He is already on campus and recruiting. That delay would seem to suggest that HCSF has not yet fully committed to a dedicated ST position (and I understand the myriad possibilities in combining job titles with the 9 coach limit.  I'm guessing that he will eventually LIST himself as the titular running backs coach and let interns and (to the extent allowable) analysts to the details.  All of this  could change if other staff defections occur. None of this is new information, but seems like a plausible summary at this point.

Bingo. No reason to not announce a ST hire now unless you're still trying to figure out how to maneuver the coaching duties or you're still not sold on hiring a coordinator, which he alluded to already.

 

Things could improve without a dedicated coordinator, but does anyone really trust they will? It needs to be the most important thing to the entire team, with OL improvement being 1B. We shall see what actually happens.

[JJ Husker]

Two things I believe.

1- A dedicated special teams coach is a waste of a coaching position and won’t help improve ST play.

2- Frost absolutely has to name a dedicated special teams coach.

Unfortunately Frost has created this conundrum himself by not placing enough emphasis and effort on ST over the course of 4 seasons. The willpower and desire has to come from the top. Our ST have been exceptionally “special” in all the wrong ways. At this point there is no decision to be made, it just has to happen. Frost has failed to make sure it has happened up to this point and now he has to waste a position on somebody who has to do the job he has failed to do. And it still won’t matter unless Frost himself really commits to it.