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Tangent Thread - Run the Damn Ball!!!


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3 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I am talking about NU offense scoring.  I already said offenses in general have been favored by rules changes etc. Defenses give up more points on average- just a guess but maybe 7 pts a game.  
i am guessing Devaney-Osborne-Solich averaged 33-37 ppg.  Frost in the mid 20s by contrast. I don’t have time to research this but for those who have ready access to all the historical stats, I’ll be happy to be corrected. 

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong- just was curious on a slow Friday so here is the data.

 

I'll start by saying Devaney's PPG is lower than all the coaches who have followed him here.  For that reason, I am not grouping him with Osborne.  

 

I think we all know that Osborne's offenses scored more points.  He averaged 36.78 points per game over his 25 year coaching career at Nebraska.  No doubt, we were fantastic.  We were in the top 5 scoring offenses the majority of his time here.  Solich dropped off almost immediately in PPG.  In Osborne's last year, 1997, we averaged 46.7 points per game.  In 1998 we averaged 31.  Solich had one good year, from a PPG stand point, in 2000 with 43.5 PPG.  His overall average was 34.2 with his low point in his last year at 27.4.  

 

That leaves the Osborn/Solich era at 36.3.  I'm not sure why you are skipping over 3 coaches before Frost because that is where the average dropped.  The Callahan, Pelini, and Riley era averaged 29PPG.  Frosts PPG is 28.3 if 2020 is removed.  2020 is very different from a PPG standpoint because there were no stat padding non conference games so it isn't apples to apples.  

 

Take what you will from the numbers.    

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1 hour ago, Hilltop said:

Not trying to prove anyone right or wrong- just was curious on a slow Friday so here is the data.

 

I'll start by saying Devaney's PPG is lower than all the coaches who have followed him here.  For that reason, I am not grouping him with Osborne.  

 

I think we all know that Osborne's offenses scored more points.  He averaged 36.78 points per game over his 25 year coaching career at Nebraska.  No doubt, we were fantastic.  We were in the top 5 scoring offenses the majority of his time here.  Solich dropped off almost immediately in PPG.  In Osborne's last year, 1997, we averaged 46.7 points per game.  In 1998 we averaged 31.  Solich had one good year, from a PPG stand point, in 2000 with 43.5 PPG.  His overall average was 34.2 with his low point in his last year at 27.4.  

 

That leaves the Osborn/Solich era at 36.3.  I'm not sure why you are skipping over 3 coaches before Frost because that is where the average dropped.  The Callahan, Pelini, and Riley era averaged 29PPG.  Frosts PPG is 28.3 if 2020 is removed.  2020 is very different from a PPG standpoint because there were no stat padding non conference games so it isn't apples to apples.  

 

Take what you will from the numbers.    

I didn’t skip over them at all.  I specifically included them.   I said the trend was down since Solich.  I was pretty close with my guesses.  So while most college offenses have steadily increased scoring, DONU is decreasing.  If Frost and his passing predecessors BC, BP, MR and SF, who abandoned the two decades of Husker run the ball a lot and score near the top of the country, to more middle or lower mid of the pack.

 

i know the Frost / pass the ball a lots strongly believe that due to various issues in years 1-4, we haven’t seen the real Frost scoring explosion.  I tend to agree if this is in fact what the Frost supporters believe.  What the debate that divides the fan base and this Board is why has Frost failed to produce?   
 

I believe the talent needed to get Frost offense up another 10 pts a game, to put us up in the top tier to win Big Ten division / titles etc, is very nearly impossible to get on a year in year out basis, over the next 20 years (Frost’s presumed tenure).  We are so far away from the richest talent pools and fiscally can’t compete with the mega wealth of the OSUs and Mich and Texas, USC, Bama, etal.  We can’t afford the best team money can buy imo.  We’re a few billion bucks short in the pot.  It took two years to raise 100 million of the 150 for the new facilities upgrades.  

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4 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I didn’t skip over them at all.  I specifically included them.   I said the trend was down since Solich.  I was pretty close with my guesses.  So while most college offenses have steadily increased scoring, DONU is decreasing.  If Frost and his passing predecessors BC, BP, MR and SF, who abandoned the two decades of Husker run the ball a lot and score near the top of the country, to more middle or lower mid of the pack.

 

i know the Frost / pass the ball a lots strongly believe that due to various issues in years 1-4, we haven’t seen the real Frost scoring explosion.  I tend to agree if this is in fact what the Frost supporters believe.  What the debate that divides the fan base and this Board is why has Frost failed to produce?   
 

I believe the talent needed to get Frost offense up another 10 pts a game, to put us up in the top tier to win Big Ten division / titles etc, is very nearly impossible to get on a year in year out basis, over the next 20 years (Frost’s presumed tenure).  We are so far away from the richest talent pools and fiscally can’t compete with the mega wealth of the OSUs and Mich and Texas, USC, Bama, etal.  We can’t afford the best team money can buy imo.  We’re a few billion bucks short in the pot.  It took two years to raise 100 million of the 150 for the new facilities upgrades.  

You are definitely entitled to your opinion.  I think with improved special teams we are 10 points or so better per game.  Add in a couple competent O linemen and maybe we are averaging close to 40 PPG.  

 

I'm in the camp that thinks Frost has massively underperformed but can still see a possibility of the system being great.  I guess time will tell.

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1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Most of college football did, as well, so that's not saying much. 

I hope Thompson works out and slings TDs game after game. It seems like we have a bunch of passing talent now.

 

In the 70s, however,  Nebraska won because they ran over everyone. Not to say we couldn't throw the ball at all, but most of the offensive success came via the run.

 

Eventually, Osborne implemented option with option QBs because Oklahoma was KILLING us with the Wishbone.

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Just now, Jeremy said:

I hope Thompson works out and slings TDs game after game. It seems like we have a bunch of passing talent now.

 

In the 70s, however,  Nebraska won because they ran over everyone. Not to say we couldn't throw the ball at all, but most of the offensive success came via the run.

 

Eventually, Osborne implemented option with option QBs because Oklahoma was KILLING us with the Wishbone.

I am very aware of how Osborne adapted his offenses during his tenure as OC and then head coach. 

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And TO always had an all world OL.  I love the run game.  BUT nothing works with a crappy OL.  Good play (improvement) at other spots will improve the W-L record, but we are not winning the West or more without improved OL play.  

 

And back to TO.  He was a genius.  He evolved continually throughout his tenure at NU.  On both sides of the ball.   

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2 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

And Osborne's offense back then was still considered "pass happy" because most college offenses ran the ball more than 75%.

 

I don't know about that. In 1975 our opponents ran the ball 69.2% of the time so the teams we played must have been considered really pass happy if NU was a pass happy team.

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4 minutes ago, Dogs In A Pile said:

 

I don't know about that. In 1975 our opponents ran the ball 69.2% of the time so the teams we played must have been considered really pass happy if NU was a pass happy team.

Thanks for those percentages, but NU's opponents were also trailing against NU a lot of the time, so they were forced to pass, while NU would be running the clock out in the 4th quarter.

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One thing to consider in this argument is the athletes we recruited and their through the early 90s.  Nebraska recruited at a very high level for a very long time and had a distinct advantage.  Regardless of how we recruit now, those massive advantages will never be the same.  Guys like Saban know this so have traditions offense to modern spread looks to keep up.

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10 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Thanks for those percentages, but NU's opponents were also trailing against NU a lot of the time, so they were forced to pass, while NU would be running the clock out in the 4th quarter.

We tended to run out the 4th qtrs cause people accused Tom of running up the score a few times as well.  Gosh, it’s been a long time since we had to worry about running up the scores.  Lately, it’s been kind of the other way and hoping we don’t get embarrassed ourselves.  

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