Running Back Room

[Mavric]

1 hour ago, admo said:

A lot of Riley guys   Not too shabby

 

Actually not all that much.

 

Martinez = Frost

Only rushing they got from Riley was Ozigbo for one year.  And even that was mostly due to scheme.

Only one notable WR was a Riley guy (Morgan was a Pelini guy).  The rest of the receivers were Frost guys.

[admo]

1 hour ago, Mavric said:

 

Actually not all that much.

 

Martinez = Frost

Only rushing they got from Riley was Ozigbo for one year.  And even that was mostly due to scheme.

Only one notable WR was a Riley guy (Morgan was a Pelini guy).  The rest of the receivers were Frost guys.

 

 

[The Dude]

12 hours ago, caveman99 said:

I have yet to see a single post on this board claiming Whipple is a run first coordinator. At most many have pointed out that Whipple is usually around 50-50 or 55-45 pass to run ratio; everyone gets that they will pass more, but most expect him to lean more towards a 50-50 spilt more so this season based on the team makeup. 

 Right. So we should all openly and freely admit that Whipple is just a pass-first guy, and he's probably going to be that here regardless of how the roster is set up.  And all the excuses are invalid.  I'm on board with that. 

[caveman99]

6 hours ago, The Dude said:

 Right. So we should all openly and freely admit that Whipple is just a pass-first guy, and he's probably going to be that here regardless of how the roster is set up.  And all the excuses are invalid.  I'm on board with that. 

I guess that is where you are getting disagreement on here. The data of Whipple’s career screams a balanced offense with a slight lean towards the pass. To me a pass first OC would be like Mike Leach or Tyson Helton who throws it 60-70% of the time. Last season Whipple threw it 51.7% of the time, even with a Heisman candidate QB and the nations best WR. That isn’t a hard core pass first offense IMO, rather that looks pretty balanced with a slight lean towards the pass because that was the team’s strength. Whipple hasn’t shown air-it-out tendencies from what I have seen of his teams and the data available, not sure why you are trying to push that narrative. 

[84HuskerLaw]

While run v pass stat count is important, I feel it is more about formation and design than some seem to think.   I admit it is not always easy to tell with some of the spread offenses today but in my view, any play that starts from a pass formation/look and or has a pass option initially before any check down to a hand off or QB keeper IS a pass play, whether the ball is thrown or not.  
 

Maybe I misjudge the plays at times, but in my eye test / observational view, 2/3rds of Frost play calls were ‘pass’ plays.  Some ended up runs in the stats but they have a look/feel of pass at the snap.  Obviously, For the season, Frost was fairly close to 50-50 balance, in the stat sheet.  But the % of runs from run formations at the snap is much lower.  I give him credit for the handful of option type plays though maybe only partial credit without a 2nd RB to lead or fake or give to.  
I am afraid Whip won’t use two RBs or TEs etc enough without Frost blessings.  The power / base run attack is Frost’s ‘missing link’.  
Finally, I also look at game yardage stats and want to see something close to 50-50 there.  250 pass & 250 run ideally. 

[ColoradoHusk]

14 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

While run v pass stat count is important, I feel it is more about formation and design than some seem to think.   I admit it is not always easy to tell with some of the spread offenses today but in my view, any play that starts from a pass formation/look and or has a pass option initially before any check down to a hand off or QB keeper IS a pass play, whether the ball is thrown or not.  
 

Maybe I misjudge the plays at times, but in my eye test / observational view, 2/3rds of Frost play calls were ‘pass’ plays.  Some ended up runs in the stats but they have a look/feel of pass at the snap.  Obviously, For the season, Frost was fairly close to 50-50 balance, in the stat sheet.  But the % of runs from run formations at the snap is much lower.  I give him credit for the handful of option type plays though maybe only partial credit without a 2nd RB to lead or fake or give to.  
I am afraid Whip won’t use two RBs or TEs etc enough without Frost blessings.  The power / base run attack is Frost’s ‘missing link’.  
Finally, I also look at game yardage stats and want to see something close to 50-50 there.  250 pass & 250 run ideally. 

Man, you need to get out of the dark ages if you think you need to line up with 2 TE’s or 2 RB’s to run the ball.

 

You also keep having unrealistic expectations when it comes to yardage and the balance of those yards. Only 2 teams averaged 250 yards rushing last year, and they were both military academies, so they were running the ball so much, that their passing yardage was so much lower. At least you are consistent in that you keep having these outdated and delusional thoughts year after year. 

[84HuskerLaw]

Fact is this is the way DONU wins fb.  Always has been.  Very little chance it will change.  
 

But it’s a rare exception, like LSU a couple yrs ago, that that champions aren’t effective running the ball.  
 

And, I will be happy to be proven wrong by Frost, Callahan, or any of about 90 other coaches across the country.  Sadly, we will be waiting well beyond the reach of even the rule against perpetuities.  
 

 

[The Dude]

18 hours ago, caveman99 said:

I guess that is where you are getting disagreement on here. The data of Whipple’s career screams a balanced offense with a slight lean towards the pass. To me a pass first OC would be like Mike Leach or Tyson Helton who throws it 60-70% of the time. Last season Whipple threw it 51.7% of the time, even with a Heisman candidate QB and the nations best WR. That isn’t a hard core pass first offense IMO, rather that looks pretty balanced with a slight lean towards the pass because that was the team’s strength. Whipple hasn’t shown air-it-out tendencies from what I have seen of his teams and the data available, not sure why you are trying to push that narrative. 

*Edit*

 

I guess I just think it's a mistake to assume his third year at Pitt is more relevant to us than his first.  Unless we have a Heisman QB and the best WR in the country.   Time will tell if we're built to throw it 40 times a game.  I just don't want to see another decent effort by the Blackshirts go to waste when all reports from camp seem to indicate we're pretty good at running the damn ball.

[BigRedBuster]

People get so worked up about Whipple’s offense when we really don’t know exactly what his Nebraska version is going to look like. 

[Savage Husker]

If we consider passes at or behind the LOS - basically a run play in disguise - then the scheme is going to be run dominated to setup the home run pass plays. If Thompson continues to be spot on with passes <5yards from LOS, then we are going to have an offense and play calling that makes Frost’s offense click. 

[84HuskerLaw]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

*Edit*

 

I guess I just think it's a mistake to assume his third year at Pitt is more relevant to us than his first.  Unless we have a Heisman QB and the best WR in the country.   Time will tell if we're built to throw it 40 times a game.  I just don't want to see another decent effort by the Blackshirts go to waste when all reports from camp seem to indicate we're pretty good at running the damn ball.

But, running the ball is a thing of the past and just won’t work in the modern age!   So says the experts and even the wannabe experts.  The rest of us cfb Neanderthal types just have to wake up.  
 

God forbid Frost and Whipple should dare to think such an idea could possibly work.  No, we just got to have a heisman trophy QB and a half dozen first round pick receivers and A ‘Great Wall’ O line to create air superiority.  Three or four chunk plays and bingo!

 

Forget those boring 4-5 yard runs and 5 minute TD drives.  If we don’t quite have all those pieces, well, we’re close.  Maybe a few transfers and h.s. recruits and next year Nebraska’s back.  It’s only been two decades in the making.  Be patient - just you wait and see.  

[huskerfan333157]

28 minutes ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

But, running the ball is a thing of the past and just won’t work in the modern age!   So says the experts and even the wannabe experts.  The rest of us cfb Neanderthal types just have to wake up.  
 

God forbid Frost and Whipple should dare to think such an idea could possibly work.  No, we just got to have a heisman trophy QB and a half dozen first round pick receivers and A ‘Great Wall’ O line to create air superiority.  Three or four chunk plays and bingo!

 

Forget those boring 4-5 yard runs and 5 minute TD drives.  If we don’t quite have all those pieces, well, we’re close.  Maybe a few transfers and h.s. recruits and next year Nebraska’s back.  It’s only been two decades in the making.  Be patient - just you wait and see.  

You won't win a NC if you run the ball more than 65% of the time. The last team to do that was Bama in 08 or 09 and they ran it 66% of the time.  Osborne even said he'd run a spread offense if he was a coach in today's game.

[84HuskerLaw]

55 minutes ago, huskerfan333157 said:

You won't win a NC if you run the ball more than 65% of the time. The last team to do that was Bama in 08 or 09 and they ran it 66% of the time.  Osborne even said he'd run a spread offense if he was a coach in today's game.

Nothing wrong with the spread.  Just not 95% of the time!    How many NCs have been won this century by teams that couldn’t run the damn ball?   Almost none.   How many teams fail to win the championship, even a conference title, that didn’t run the ball effectively?  Answer: almost all of them. 
 

Frost has yet to field a team with even a decent run game.  I submit not one opponent we’ve faced the past four years feared our run game.  They simply defended our receivers and sacked the QB.  We’ve pass blocked on our few ‘run’ plays and to nobody’s surprise, our run plays rarely work.
 

Our most successful run plays / drives in 4 years were the half dozen times using the option variation. OSU game, 3rd qtr I believe, is an example.  ADrian was 6-2” 225 lbs behind a strong center who left early to an NFL job but we couldn’t execute a 2 yard QB sneak or simple dive play. Probably count all the under certain snaps Adrian took on both hands in 4 years!    Even when for two years the shotgun snaps were the highest risk play in Neb football.  We don’t even have a FB position in the playbook.  We use wingback sized RBs most of the time without lead blocks, fakes, etc.  it’s no wonder we can’t run the ball effectively.  We haven’t tried.  
 

I may overstate things a tad for emphasis, but there is no doubt in my mind, this is the essence of the problem.  I will be very surprised if Whipple doesn’t mix in some of the types of plays which can give some power and variety and deception and so on to the Frost offense.  If he does, and the team has had enough practice time to be able to execute them at an average D1 level, we will have a much better offense.  I am hopeful we see it in Dublin albeit in a rough, crude form with so many new things to develop.
 

I expect to see the new and much improved Frost offense (I’m calling the FrostyWhip).  I’m worried about (as I’ve been for 4 years now) inadequate O line play (0 depth).  If they stay healthy, we WILL score over 30 pts a game with these changes, even if we don’t run it any more often, stat wise, if we use better designed run plays as I wish.  Whipple and the other coaches can surely see this.  Heck, maybe Frost finally sees it.  We will soon know.  

I don’t want to leave QB play out of this either and I’m expecting, by October it will be better.  Not real sure about the early games.  Cross my fingers.   I guess we will see how good AM actually can be in his new job In Kansas. I hope he wins the Big 12 and blows Texas out!   But I won’t bet on it. 

[caveman99]

4 hours ago, The Dude said:

*Edit*

 

I guess I just think it's a mistake to assume his third year at Pitt is more relevant to us than his first.  Unless we have a Heisman QB and the best WR in the country.   Time will tell if we're built to throw it 40 times a game.  I just don't want to see another decent effort by the Blackshirts go to waste when all reports from camp seem to indicate we're pretty good at running the damn ball.

All of Whipple’s college career points to a balanced offense though. I went ahead detailed it below for you, the highest he got to was just under 56% for 2 years at UMass. Those years his teams averaged just over 40 passing attempts per game vs just over 32 rushing attempts per game, a far cry from being a pass first, along it all over the field type of play caller. His trend in the last 4 years since those 2 years is to average a few more passes per game than rushes. I also went and added his prior college stop to UMass, which was at Miami, yes the hated Canes. Whipple still ran a balanced offense there, but he actually leaned slightly more to the run calling a running play 51-52% of the time.
 

Reality is that it may seem that NU will be pass happy under Whipple as Frost had been heavier on the run than pass (52.9%, 62.6%, 59.4%, and 57.5% run play percentages the last 4 seasons), but the reality is that the offense will most likely just become a bit more balanced under Whipple. 

Whipple Offense Ave Pass Attempts/Game %
Pitt 2021 - 51.7%
Pitt 2020 - 52.9%
Pitt 2019 - 54.4%
UMass 2018 - 50.9%

UMass 2017 - 51.7%

UMass 2016 - 53.6%

UMass 2015 - 55.8%

UMass 2014 - 55.9%

Miami FL 2010 - 48.3%

Miami FL 2009 - 47.8%

[LumberJackSker]

As long as the drives end in points what does it matter if they run it more or pass it more? How are some fans still caring about style points after 5 straight losing seasons?