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Tangent Thread - S&C Edition


BigRedBuster

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1 minute ago, Loebarth said:

Not sure you can say that.. defense seems to be holding their own physically. The offense however... especially the line is where the biggest struggle is. Both sides have the same Strength and Conditioning.

I personally think that the majority of the O line problem isn't strength, it's technique and knowing what the hell they are supposed to do.

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I personally think that the majority of the O line problem isn't strength, it's technique and knowing what the hell they are supposed to do.

They can’t move either. Frost and Duval went all in on getting the biggest guys they can find and getting them bigger, but the end result was guys who can’t move, have no quickness, and use leverage to block guys. 

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4 minutes ago, Loebarth said:

Not sure you can say that.. defense seems to be holding their own physically. The offense however... especially the line is where the biggest struggle is. Both sides have the same Strength and Conditioning.

I would say that it’s not true that the d-line has been holding their own. They get pushed off the ball consistently, by better o-lines, even this year. 

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4 minutes ago, Loebarth said:

Not sure you can say that.. defense seems to be holding their own physically. The offense however... especially the line is where the biggest struggle is. Both sides have the same Strength and Conditioning.

No it’s not. Don’t let the fact that opposing offenses can just go conservative against us as a sign we’re holding our own. We sure as hell weren’t holding our own against a crap Wisconsin team Saturday to end the game. Michigan was a complete embarrassment and had a 60-3 feel written all over it if Harbaugh actually woulda tried. Oklahoma was a nightmare. Purdue is a middling team and we let them hang 43. Outside of the 2 freshman, hausman and hartzog the defensive unit has been a complete disappointment for the majority of the season

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7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I personally think that the majority of the O line problem isn't strength, it's technique and knowing what the hell they are supposed to do.

There are some pieces to the OL, but injuries and failing a drug test took the top two OL out of the picture. There is ZERO depth and the fact that they keep sending out some the same guys is alarming and proof there is no depth. The guys playing were coached by someone way over their head for most of their career and then got another guy that doesn't seem to know what the hell is going on either. Poor recruiting/retention and poor coaching is the perfect recipe for one of the, if not the worst OL in the history of Nebraska football.

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@Red Five @ColoradoHusk  That's why I included in my original post on the subject, strength and conditioning.

 

I believe that you put our O linemen in the weight room, they can lift as much as other teams that play way better.  But, there is some major disconnect on how strength/conditioning and player development has been working at Nebraska.  I believe that the raw talent is there.  But, those factors have not allowed our O line to get better and play well.

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3 minutes ago, Touchdown Tommie said:

There are some pieces to the OL, but injuries and failing a drug test took the top two OL out of the picture. There is ZERO depth and the fact that they keep sending out some the same guys is alarming and proof there is no depth. The guys playing were coached by someone way over their head for most of their career and then got another guy that doesn't seem to know what the hell is going on either. Poor recruiting/retention and poor coaching is the perfect recipe for one of the, if not the worst OL in the history of Nebraska football.

You're basically saying the same thing I am, but including recruiting.  Could recruiting be better?  Heck ya.  But, I believe recruiting has been good enough for them to be way better than they are.  I agree that they are the worst at least in my lifetime.  But, there are other factors that are playing a bigger factor in that than recruiting.  The bolded is probably THE major part.  Which, coincides with my comments that the major problem has been strength/conditioning and player development.

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7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

@Red Five @ColoradoHusk  That's why I included in my original post on the subject, strength and conditioning.

 

I believe that you put our O linemen in the weight room, they can lift as much as other teams that play way better.  But, there is some major disconnect on how strength/conditioning and player development has been working at Nebraska.  I believe that the raw talent is there.  But, those factors have not allowed our O line to get better and play well.

My concern with o-line recruiting is that Frost got so freaked out about the size of Big Ten linemen, that he went out and looked for the biggest o-linemen he could find, regardless of “talent”. I think Frost missed out on “lesser talents” because a guy didn’t fit a specific height or weight requirement. I don’t have specific names, it’s just more of a general observation or thought. 

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18 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Does slow footwork/foot speed count as S&C?  Because War Daddy Duval has turned our OLs feet into cinder blocks.

 

I would say it's not that Duval turned their feet into cinder blocks, it's that they haven't been coached to know what the hell to do with their feet. Or for that matter any other part of their body.

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4 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

My concern with o-line recruiting is that Frost got so freaked out about the size of Big Ten linemen, that he went out and looked for the biggest o-linemen he could find, regardless of “talent”. I think Frost missed out on “lesser talents” because a guy didn’t fit a specific height or weight requirement. I don’t have specific names, it’s just more of a general observation or thought. 

Possibly.  After his first year, Frost made specific comments about the size of our O linemen and how surprised he was that they are so much smaller than other good lines in the big Ten.  He concentrated on getting bigger linemen.  

However, it's not like he went and got a bunch of fat blubber butts that nobody else wanted.  Some of these guys were heavily recruited by, not just Frost, but by other major programs.  My belief is that if those same linemen would have gone to Wisconsin, Iowa or Minnesota, there development and careers would have been way different.

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6 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

My concern with o-line recruiting is that Frost got so freaked out about the size of Big Ten linemen, that he went out and looked for the biggest o-linemen he could find, regardless of “talent”. I think Frost missed out on “lesser talents” because a guy didn’t fit a specific height or weight requirement. I don’t have specific names, it’s just more of a general observation or thought. 

 

Not really following this.  Why would we want "lesser talents" who are also smaller builds?

 

Or are you saying they were only viewed as lesser because they were smaller?  I don't think that really holds up.  Yes, we got guys who are pretty big physically.  But they were also very highly-rated recruits.

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21 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Not really following this.  Why would we want "lesser talents" who are also smaller builds?

 

Or are you saying they were only viewed as lesser because they were smaller?  I don't think that really holds up.  Yes, we got guys who are pretty big physically.  But they were also very highly-rated recruits.

I’m not going to pretend to be a recruiting expert, and yes the linemen NU has brought in were highly rated, and being recruited by other schools in NU’s division. I just think it’s possible that there could have been other linemen who were quicker, better blockers, and just more overall effective linemen, but weren’t as highly recruited or rated because they were they were an inch or two shorter.  To me, that goes to the personal evaluation of kids during the recruiting process. Anyway, I think there are multiple reasons why NU’s lines have been messes the past few years. I’m done commenting that it’s one area more than another. 

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26 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Not really following this.  Why would we want "lesser talents" who are also smaller builds?

 

Or are you saying they were only viewed as lesser because they were smaller?  I don't think that really holds up.  Yes, we got guys who are pretty big physically.  But they were also very highly-rated recruits.

 

Agreed.

 

We've hauled in enough 4 star offensive linemen to put something decent together. The problem in my opinion was poor fundamentals coaching, a culture that was poor on motivation & competition, and then a lack of developing depth in the 2nd & 3rd deep to get guys ready for years 4 and 5.

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13 minutes ago, Undone said:

We've hauled in enough 4 star offensive linemen to put something decent together. The problem in my opinion was poor fundamentals coaching, a culture that was poor on motivation & competition, and then a lack of developing depth in the 2nd & 3rd deep to get guys ready for years 4 and 5.

 

I don't pretend to know all that goes into it.  Fundamentals and footwork almost have to be a part of it - if not most of it.  I also find it really odd that there seemed to be a significant disconnect between what Frost wanted and what Austin wanted to do.  That had to be a factor as well - perhaps a significant one.  If they're constantly getting pulled in different directions (no pun intended) or we keep changing things up, that's not a recipe for success.

 

I also can't rule out S&C issues.  But I tend to think those are overblown.  People have literally been complaining that we've had terrible S&C for nearly 20 years.  If that's true, the only thing we're worse at than hiring head coaches is hiring S&C people.  If it's that much of an issue, then the guys that transferred in from other programs should have been able to jump to the top really quickly.  Instead they barely played.  It seems to me that one of those things that is an easy target because it's hard to argue against.  But I'm not really sure that's a main problem.  Could contribute, though.

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