Count 'Bility
Banned
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Comparing Nebraska's most colorful coaches of late
- Thread starter NUpolo8
- Start date
carlfense
Heisman Trophy Winner
I'd +1 this but I used them all by 9am. Haha. Get you tomorrow.
Sorry if I was being a richard about it.
Landlord
Banned
74Hunter
Banned
No problems, we've all been a Richard every now and then. I've certainly had more than my share of those moments.
+1
Guy Chamberlin
Heisman Trophy Winner
Come on. It's not all about the exact number of wins and losses, is it?
For me it's been the quality of losses, when offense, defense and special teams have all looked like deer in the headlights, suddenly forgetting what they know how to do. Playing tight and skittish. Failing to make adjustments.
Overmatched talent can play its a$$ off and simply lose to a better team. Bo's teams have a hard time playing focused and disciplined for four quarters. And sometimes they are outright embarrassed. Not coincidentally on national television.
That collective tendency points to head coaching. That's my problem.
Tighter, better played losses to UCLA and Iowa would have made a difference to me. Don't know about everyone else.
For me it's been the quality of losses, when offense, defense and special teams have all looked like deer in the headlights, suddenly forgetting what they know how to do. Playing tight and skittish. Failing to make adjustments.
Overmatched talent can play its a$$ off and simply lose to a better team. Bo's teams have a hard time playing focused and disciplined for four quarters. And sometimes they are outright embarrassed. Not coincidentally on national television.
That collective tendency points to head coaching. That's my problem.
Tighter, better played losses to UCLA and Iowa would have made a difference to me. Don't know about everyone else.
Scratchtown
All-Conference
You are on a college football message board dude. It's going to happen. It is what it is. Especially in the given situation of a program that is stuck in "neutral"
Scratchtown
All-Conference
To be clear. Is this list you guys want; Coaches that have won no less than 9 games? Meaning current or all time? BCS schools? Mid Majors too? D2? D3?
I could figure this out in a few hours and I have already started the coors light for tonight meaning, I don't have anything else to do. Give me the criteria, and I'll find it. (try to)
I could figure this out in a few hours and I have already started the coors light for tonight meaning, I don't have anything else to do. Give me the criteria, and I'll find it. (try to)
sd'sker
Banned
no, i never said anything about big paydays. but when you did, i thought that was a good way to convey the idea of where they finish. bo went right to the big payday, those other coaches did not. i feel like nebraska should be a big pay day, not a stepping stone to the big payday.
i know what you are saying, and i think you know what i am saying. i do not think i am saying anything that controversial.
would you feel better if i would have said something like, "not many of the big time football programs seem to have first time head coaches"? that is what i should have said. and if a coordinator is going to move up to the head job, it seems that they are generally in the program and just trying to keep it going.
you can say i am shifting the goalposts and that is fine. i really do not think this is worth arguing.
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Landlord
Banned
That's not what people were asking for.
But three separate lists would be handy - one for schools that have fired coaches after a 9+ win season, schools that have fired coaches that had never lost fewer than 9 games (would this list ahve anyone on it?) and schools that have fired coaches that have won greater than 70% of their games at that school.
NUpolo8
Banned
Fine, let's get weird.
Anyone here ever heard of John Robinson and Phil Fulmer?
One is a legendary USC coach and the other a legendary Tennessee coach. Both compiled a winning percentage of over .700, and both were fired by their schools.
Now, does this mean that Nebraska should or shouldn't fire Bo? No, it has no bearing on the current situation at Nebraska.
Because both of these coaches at one point won less than nine games, does that mean that Bo Pelini is a better coach than these two hall of famers? Or that he's a better coach than Bob Stoops? Or Jimbo Fisher? Or Pete Carroll? Or David Shaw? Or Mark Dantonio? Or Urban Meyer? I'd love the hear the arguments why he is, although it'd be hard to hear over my laughter.
What's the argument here? That an imaginary 9 win benchmark means anything? That Nebraska can't do something that hasn't been done before? Let's judge Bo Pelini on his own achievements, which are some 9-10 win seasons that were overachieving, and some that were desperately underachieving. And there's been more underachieving in recent history than the former, I think we can all agree.
I don't have a personal grudge against Bo Pelini and I don't think anyone who feels similar to me does either, they just feel like he's underperforming. And there's more than enough evidence to support that. There isn't some sabermetric handy to show when you should fire a coach, no matter how badly anyone here wants one.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
Robinson and Fulmer both had rather sharp slides late in their careers. After a Rose Bowl berth in '95, the '96 and '97 USC teams both finished with just 6 wins. Fulmer won only 5 games in 2005 and 2008, and his last BCS bowl was 1999.
Bo isn't yet in the realm of a coach who achieved great heights early in his career only to get fired after a bad string of later seasons. He's actually pretty unique; I can't think of another guy that's hovered as steadiLLLLy as he has. No big achievements to lean on, but no 'bad season' to provide an objectively clear pretext for firing. You gotta figure he's going to eventually go one way or the other, though. A slide from this point would easily result in his dismissal. A good run would lock him in for many more years if he wanted.
If I had to guess I'd say we're looking at a Kirk Ferentz type of deal, where if Bo stays for another 10 years, we'll get a top 10 finish here or there amidst a lot of 4 and 5 loss seasons. Kinda not what I'd look forward to, unless Bo develops, you know, a great personality or something. There's always @FauxPelini, true, but how fun is it really to be Iowa?
Bo isn't yet in the realm of a coach who achieved great heights early in his career only to get fired after a bad string of later seasons. He's actually pretty unique; I can't think of another guy that's hovered as steadiLLLLy as he has. No big achievements to lean on, but no 'bad season' to provide an objectively clear pretext for firing. You gotta figure he's going to eventually go one way or the other, though. A slide from this point would easily result in his dismissal. A good run would lock him in for many more years if he wanted.
If I had to guess I'd say we're looking at a Kirk Ferentz type of deal, where if Bo stays for another 10 years, we'll get a top 10 finish here or there amidst a lot of 4 and 5 loss seasons. Kinda not what I'd look forward to, unless Bo develops, you know, a great personality or something. There's always @FauxPelini, true, but how fun is it really to be Iowa?
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Scratchtown
All-Conference
Frank Beamer might be the closest thing.
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NUpolo8
Banned
Lloyd Carr also comes to mind.
But the sharp slides in John and Phil's career still didn't knock them below the .700 mark, and I'd really like someone to say Bo is a better coach than either of the two just because they didn't win the 9 win trophy of for a few years.
What does the 9 win trophy look like by the way? I've never seen it in north Stadium
But the sharp slides in John and Phil's career still didn't knock them below the .700 mark, and I'd really like someone to say Bo is a better coach than either of the two just because they didn't win the 9 win trophy of for a few years.
What does the 9 win trophy look like by the way? I've never seen it in north Stadium
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zoogs
Assistant Coach
polo, Lloyd Carr didn't get fired, right?
Hm, maybe. Beamer's early years at VT ranged from bad to nondescript -- like they didn't even have a program before him. 1995, they made the Sugar Bowl on a 10-2 season. Since then, they've only gone three straight years without either a BCS bowl or Top 10 finish once. That is a whole lot of success. VT made either a BCS bowl (8) or finished in the Top 10 (7) in 11 of the 19 seasons since 1995.
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Landlord
Banned
Lloyd Carr "resigned" the same way Mack Brown did - he was fired. But he still isn't that comparable - he went undefeated and won a national championship in his third year.
He is close in a lot of ways, especially since they went 8 years straight with 10, 9 and 8 wins, but they also were conference champions four times during that stretch.
Zoogies' comment earlier is spot on - what we have here is unique. I wasn't actually trying to compare Bo to other coaches, but only to illustrate the point that we can't compare him to other coaches. Those that are generally pessimistic or opposed to Pelini hypocritically tend to criticize others for comparing him in a positive light, but then turn around and compare (maybe the more proper term would be contrast) in negative ways.
This is fairly unprecedented.
Edit: Carr also took over for Schembechler, who was also an incredibly consistent winner. Michigan had 10, 9, 8, 11, and 10 wins the seasons before Carr. Whatever that means.
He is close in a lot of ways, especially since they went 8 years straight with 10, 9 and 8 wins, but they also were conference champions four times during that stretch.
Zoogies' comment earlier is spot on - what we have here is unique. I wasn't actually trying to compare Bo to other coaches, but only to illustrate the point that we can't compare him to other coaches. Those that are generally pessimistic or opposed to Pelini hypocritically tend to criticize others for comparing him in a positive light, but then turn around and compare (maybe the more proper term would be contrast) in negative ways.
This is fairly unprecedented.
Edit: Carr also took over for Schembechler, who was also an incredibly consistent winner. Michigan had 10, 9, 8, 11, and 10 wins the seasons before Carr. Whatever that means.
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