Does this team even care???

[Undone]

For sure. And look at what Alabama's QB was able to do in that game. But again, the point I'm making is that the "run first, throw second" guys always put you at potential risk.

We're into year eight of this. Year eight.

 

[cm husker]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.

Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

I did not have a chance to watch this game, but I've watched enough games that a lot of "true QBs" miss the same throws, and they don't bring anything to the table that athletic QBs do in terms of running.

 

[cm husker]

For sure. And look at what Alabama's QB was able to do in that game. But again, the point I'm making is that the "run first, throw second" guys always put you at potential risk.

We're into year eight of this. Year eight.

8? Other than a short stretch under Callahan, we're into 3+ decades of it.

Thank god.

 

[cm husker]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.
Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

That is how Auburn can compete with Alabama. They did it a few years ago with #14 I can't remember the name but he was an athlete QB but he was dropping deep balls on Bama like nobodies business

Nick Marshall. A guy I'd describe as a "quarterback first, run second" kind of a guy. Not the other way around.

Nick Marshall was no more of a QB than Tommy Armstrong.

And that's kind of my point: had Armstrong been used like Malzan has used his QBs, he's like quite a bit more efficient.

 

[Nebfanatic]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.
Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

I did not have a chance to watch this game, but I've watched enough games that a lot of "true QBs" miss the same throws, and they don't bring anything to the table that athletic QBs do in terms of running.

Not 7 or 8 times in a game. I'm sorry but our passing game will always be unreliable with a guy like Tommy back there. It's boom or bust there is no consistency. I guarantee if a heathy Fyfe was throwing those balls against Iowa he would have at least complete one of them

 

[Nebfanatic]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.
Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

That is how Auburn can compete with Alabama. They did it a few years ago with #14 I can't remember the name but he was an athlete QB but he was dropping deep balls on Bama like nobodies business

Nick Marshall. A guy I'd describe as a "quarterback first, run second" kind of a guy. Not the other way around.

Nick Marshall was no more of a QB than Tommy Armstrong.

And that's kind of my point: had Armstrong been used like Malzan has used his QBs, he's like quite a bit more efficient.

except Nick Marshall did complete his deep throws down the field consistently when they were open. That is something Tommy has proven time and again he cannot do

 

[Undone]

For sure. And look at what Alabama's QB was able to do in that game. But again, the point I'm making is that the "run first, throw second" guys always put you at potential risk.

We're into year eight of this. Year eight.

8? Other than a short stretch under Callahan, we're into 3+ decades of it.

Thank god.

We're either going to get a coach who recruits and coaches really good offensive lines, or we're not. Bo didn't do it. At all.

If we're going to continue on in the offensive line trend we've been in, I'll take a pocket passer who has the instincts for making passing reads quickly over a guy who runs behind a line that doesn't block well.

It's not my personal preference; as a lifelong fan, I'd rather see a power run offense, also. But I'm being realistic about the paradigm we're in, and if we don't get out of it, we're going to continue to suck.

Also, we need better defenses. At this point that's our biggest problem, really.

 

[Undone]

Nick Marshall was no more of a QB than Tommy Armstrong.
And that's kind of my point: had Armstrong been used like Malzan has used his QBs, he's like quite a bit more efficient.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Marshall had a measurably better eye for reading the field and completing passes.

 

[Undone]

It's possible, cm, that you're just not very good at dissecting the throwing abilities of a QB. From what I've seen of your posts, I think that's probably a large part of your inability to really discuss this topic well.

You have a great eye for the abilities of a run-first QB. But not so much for the throwing abilities of a QB.

 

[Mierin]

It's possible, cm, that you're just not very good at dissecting the throwing abilities of a QB. From what I've seen of your posts, I think that's probably a large part of your inability to really discuss this topic well.

You have a great eye for the abilities of a run-first QB. But not so much for the throwing abilities of a QB.

It's pretty much a fact.
He thinks an athletic QB with a 60% completion rate who rushed for 900 yards/season is no more of a QB than Armstrong.

Now he's going to come up with a million different excuses like coaches and scheme. He'll say if Pelini had stayed, Armstrong's completion % would have improved. Even though it didn't in his first two years.

 

[cm husker]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.
Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

I did not have a chance to watch this game, but I've watched enough games that a lot of "true QBs" miss the same throws, and they don't bring anything to the table that athletic QBs do in terms of running.

Not 7 or 8 times in a game. I'm sorry but our passing game will always be unreliable with a guy like Tommy back there. It's boom or bust there is no consistency. I guarantee if a heathy Fyfe was throwing those balls against Iowa he would have at least complete one of them

I've re-watched the game.

Here are his throws (and some info on the runs that I jotted down) during the first half:

Incomplete to Westy (wide throw, nearly picked)

Incomplete throw away (arguably a WR broke his route off wrong)

Complete swing pass to Westy (he took it for 11 yards)

Boring up the middle run out of a single back set (for 3 yards)

Complete over the middle to Carter (8 yard gain)

Zone read by Armstrong (1 yard)

Swing pass (wide throw)

Incomplete to Morgan (good throw but Morgan wasn't ready)

Jet sweep to DPE (3 yards)

Middle zone run by Bryant (1 yard)

Pass batted down

Middle zone run (6 yards)

Middle zone run (5 yards)

Incomplete long throw into single coverage (announcer: "good throw, hard to throw it perfectly when it's 40 yards downfield and there's wind blowing)

Middle screen (6 yards)

Incomplete long throw (Reilley stumbled and alos may have ran a bad route by not getting wider; announcer: "this is odd play calling")

Complete pass to DPE on a long out pattern from a rollout look (this is Tommy's best look, and I think we ran it once for him - we also have no "couple play" with it)

Middle zone run for 8 yards (Newby hurt on play)

Zone read by Armstrong (5 yards)

Middle zone for no gain

Complete to Westy (14 yards)

Complete to Westy (5 yards)

Middle zone run (1 yard)

Zone read by Armstron (1 yard)

Incomplete (Reilly fell down)

Outside zone (2 yard)

Middle zone (3 yards)

Complete to Morgan (15 yards) - negated by a questionable holding call

Complete to Reilly on deep in pattern (15 yards) - great catch by Reilly

Outside zone run (5 yards)

Outside zone (4 yards)

Sneak by Armstrong (1 yard)

Incomplete deep in route to Reilly (looked like a wide throw)

Zone read by Armstrong (1 yard)

Incomplete deep throw to Reilly (this was an overthrow)

So, at the end of a half, Tommy had one true overthrow on a deep pass. At this point, NU is down 20-3. I hardly think you can blame 20-3 on an overthrow.

Armstrong's biggest problem as a passer isn't his lack of accuracy, but the fact that he predetermines his reads prior to the snap. He does the same in the run game. And that's partly a function of a unfamiliarity with the system. It's also a function of coaching.

 

[Undone]

I'm not trying to put him (cm husker) down. I'm trying to look at his arguments.

A mobile QB gives you things a non-mobile QB doesn't. But until we have an amazing offensive line - And that's not happening any time soon - I want a throw-first guy. I think it gives us the best chance on offense given the fact that Bryant and Ozigbo are dynamic runners that can do plenty from just taking handoffs & tosses.

 

[Undone]

Armstrong's biggest problem as a passer isn't his lack of accuracy, but the fact that he predetermines his reads prior to the snap. He does the same in the run game. And that's partly a function of a unfamiliarity with the system. It's also a function of coaching.

Agreed on the bigger problem being his inability to read the field. It's probably something he's carried with him all the way from high school. No offense to Tommy, but I remember all too well the night I watched Tommy's high school senior year highlight reel on Big Red Wrap Up and thought to myself, "No...not again."

If it's a function of coaching, we are definitely f*****. But I don't think that's the case with a guy who was a quarterbacks coach in the NFL. Unless you're referring to the problem going back to Beck...in which case I'd strongly agree.

 

[Landlord]

So have we found out if the team cares or not yet?

 

[Nebfanatic]

Many of the receivers in those lobs TA made were actually open. They just weren't "Tommy Armstrong Open"

Explain what that means.
Serious question, do some of you watch any other football games? Or is it only NU games?

cm, did you watch the Auburn/Alabama game? Auburn's athlete-turned-QB had a similar game for them. Probably 8-9 times he had guys open that he just couldn't/wouldn't find. Auburn could have been in that game.

I did not have a chance to watch this game, but I've watched enough games that a lot of "true QBs" miss the same throws, and they don't bring anything to the table that athletic QBs do in terms of running.

Not 7 or 8 times in a game. I'm sorry but our passing game will always be unreliable with a guy like Tommy back there. It's boom or bust there is no consistency. I guarantee if a heathy Fyfe was throwing those balls against Iowa he would have at least complete one of them

I've re-watched the game.

Here are his throws (and some info on the runs that I jotted down) during the first half:

Incomplete to Westy (wide throw, nearly picked)

Incomplete throw away (arguably a WR broke his route off wrong)

Complete swing pass to Westy (he took it for 11 yards)

Boring up the middle run out of a single back set (for 3 yards)

Complete over the middle to Carter (8 yard gain)

Zone read by Armstrong (1 yard)

Swing pass (wide throw)

Incomplete to Morgan (good throw but Morgan wasn't ready)

Jet sweep to DPE (3 yards)

Middle zone run by Bryant (1 yard)

Pass batted down

Middle zone run (6 yards)

Middle zone run (5 yards)

Incomplete long throw into single coverage (announcer: "good throw, hard to throw it perfectly when it's 40 yards downfield and there's wind blowing)

Middle screen (6 yards)

Incomplete long throw (Reilley stumbled and alos may have ran a bad route by not getting wider; announcer: "this is odd play calling")

Complete pass to DPE on a long out pattern from a rollout look (this is Tommy's best look, and I think we ran it once for him - we also have no "couple play" with it)

Middle zone run for 8 yards (Newby hurt on play)

Zone read by Armstrong (5 yards)

Middle zone for no gain

Complete to Westy (14 yards)

Complete to Westy (5 yards)

Middle zone run (1 yard)

Zone read by Armstron (1 yard)

Incomplete (Reilly fell down)

Outside zone (2 yard)

Middle zone (3 yards)

Complete to Morgan (15 yards) - negated by a questionable holding call

Complete to Reilly on deep in pattern (15 yards) - great catch by Reilly

Outside zone run (5 yards)

Outside zone (4 yards)

Sneak by Armstrong (1 yard)

Incomplete deep in route to Reilly (looked like a wide throw)

Zone read by Armstrong (1 yard)

Incomplete deep throw to Reilly (this was an overthrow)

So, at the end of a half, Tommy had one true overthrow on a deep pass. At this point, NU is down 20-3. I hardly think you can blame 20-3 on an overthrow.

Armstrong's biggest problem as a passer isn't his lack of accuracy, but the fact that he predetermines his reads prior to the snap. He does the same in the run game. And that's partly a function of a unfamiliarity with the system. It's also a function of coaching.

he has overthrown touchdown passes all year. You are right about predetermining, but again he has done that his whole career. Some of the throws in the Iowa game were miscommunication not on Tommy, but that doesn't change the fact Tommy has probably left 8 TD'S on the field by overthrowing receivers all year. Tommy would probably do much better in a different system, but he misses those throws no matter what offense he is running because he is inconsistent with his mechanics and that is nearly impossible to change