Gerald McCoy > Ndamukong Suh

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blackshirts5115

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Was just watching Todd McShay do his mock draft on ESPN. He quoted, "And at the third pick, Tampa Bay will take the Number One Defensive Tackle in the draft Gerald McCoy, though he's the second DT selected."

It's disgusting that he could actually think McCoy is better than Suh. Maybe he has a better juke move to get to the QB. The only argument against Suh is that in college, he just "overpowered" Offensive Linemen and he won't be able to do that in the NFL. Here's my rebuttal:

Are these NFL O-linemen suddenly new breeds or new people that just appear in the NFL? No, they are the exact same people that Suh laughed at in college. Do Offensive Linemen magically get stronger and more dominant when they are drafted, whereas DTs stay the same? No. Suh handled the best of Offensive Linemen in college, and will do the same to the same O-linemen in the NFL. Todd McShay sucks.

(tried to look for a thread that included this topic but was unsuccessful. sorry if there is one already.)

 
McShay is trying to make a name for himself. He's got to go up against Mel Kiper, the unquestioned Guru of the draft, creator of The Big Board. He's not going to make a splash saying the same thing Kiper is saying, and since Kiper has been pimping Suh since about mid-October, McShay has to say something else.

The film doesn't lie. The stats don't lie. Performances at the Combine didn't lie (this time). The only way you can look at the two and say McCoy is "better than" Suh is if you have a vested interest in McCoy being better than Suh, and McShay has that interest - he needs a "win" in the Draft prognostication game.

 
No the difference between a College O-line and NFL O-line is that those players on the NFL team are each elite whereas in college you may have 1 or 2 guys that are decent enough to make the 2nd string if your lucky 1st string.

The whole McCoy thing is just a way to have an arguement if you look at the numbers its not even close. Its called that if everyone agrees no one pays attention if there is arguement people watch.

 
knapplc said:
McShay is trying to make a name for himself. He's got to go up against Mel Kiper, the unquestioned Guru of the draft, creator of The Big Board. He's not going to make a splash saying the same thing Kiper is saying, and since Kiper has been pimping Suh since about mid-October, McShay has to say something else.

The film doesn't lie. The stats don't lie. Performances at the Combine didn't lie (this time). The only way you can look at the two and say McCoy is "better than" Suh is if you have a vested interest in McCoy being better than Suh, and McShay has that interest - he needs a "win" in the Draft prognostication game.
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Wonderfully put.

 
knapplc said:
McShay is trying to make a name for himself. He's got to go up against Mel Kiper, the unquestioned Guru of the draft, creator of The Big Board. He's not going to make a splash saying the same thing Kiper is saying, and since Kiper has been pimping Suh since about mid-October, McShay has to say something else.

The film doesn't lie. The stats don't lie. Performances at the Combine didn't lie (this time). The only way you can look at the two and say McCoy is "better than" Suh is if you have a vested interest in McCoy being better than Suh, and McShay has that interest - he needs a "win" in the Draft prognostication game.
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well said. and mcshay was on mike and mike and they asked him to pick 5 players in the draft that will become pro bowlers. he conspicuously left out SUH, and gave a ridiculous response, which was that SUH will not have the stats needed to be a pro bowler because he will be doubled teamed too much. he did have mccoy, which should be insulting because he is saying, in effect, that mccoy is not good enough to need double teams. well he and kiper had the exact same response, except kiper had SUH.

 
There's also the fact that NFL lineman can focus on football 24/7/365 if they want (they won't but they'll put more time into it than a college lineman can). They don't have to focus on school, just on improving their own strength and technique. Suh won't be as dominant as he was last year for at least a couple years because it seemed like he used his bull rush most of the time. But since he's very coachable, and since he's very good with his hands and leverage, he'll still be successful.

 
whateveritis1224 said:
There's also the fact that NFL lineman can focus on football 24/7/365 if they want (they won't but they'll put more time into it than a college lineman can). They don't have to focus on school, just on improving their own strength and technique. Suh won't be as dominant as he was last year for at least a couple years because it seemed like he used his bull rush most of the time. But since he's very coachable, and since he's very good with his hands and leverage, he'll still be successful.
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no DT will ever be as dominant as suh was last year in the NFL. that just doesnt happen.

 
melscott62 said:
whateveritis1224 said:
There's also the fact that NFL lineman can focus on football 24/7/365 if they want (they won't but they'll put more time into it than a college lineman can). They don't have to focus on school, just on improving their own strength and technique. Suh won't be as dominant as he was last year for at least a couple years because it seemed like he used his bull rush most of the time. But since he's very coachable, and since he's very good with his hands and leverage, he'll still be successful.
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no DT will ever be as dominant as suh was last year in the NFL. that just doesnt happen.
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Or ever again in the NCAA for that matter.

And for the record, Suh is miles ahead of McCoy. McShay is just a talking head trying to make a name for himself, but he probably should have picked a different player to disagree with Kiper Jr. on. Anyone who knows anything at all about McCoy and Suh knows that Suh is much, much better than McCoy. McShay just looks like an idiot when he tries to make his case.

 
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mturn087 said:
No the difference between a College O-line and NFL O-line is that those players on the NFL team are each elite whereas in college you may have 1 or 2 guys that are decent enough to make the 2nd string if your lucky 1st string.

The whole McCoy thing is just a way to have an arguement if you look at the numbers its not even close. Its called that if everyone agrees no one pays attention if there is arguement people watch.
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Good point.

NFL linemen are the best of the best college players. They have more experience and have played against some of the toughest competition. Suh physically might be able to bull rush offensive linemen in the NFL, but you have to expect that these guys will be prepared for this and will have a better skill set to defeat Suh.

I'm not saying Suh will fail in the NFL, by any means. But, he will be going up against the best of the best. I have confidence in him, though.

 
Enhance89 said:
mturn087 said:
No the difference between a College O-line and NFL O-line is that those players on the NFL team are each elite whereas in college you may have 1 or 2 guys that are decent enough to make the 2nd string if your lucky 1st string.

The whole McCoy thing is just a way to have an arguement if you look at the numbers its not even close. Its called that if everyone agrees no one pays attention if there is arguement people watch.
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Good point.

NFL linemen are the best of the best college players. They have more experience and have played against some of the toughest competition. Suh physically might be able to bull rush offensive linemen in the NFL, but you have to expect that these guys will be prepared for this and will have a better skill set to defeat Suh.

I'm not saying Suh will fail in the NFL, by any means. But, he will be going up against the best of the best. I have confidence in him, though.
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Agreed, but this goes both ways. After Suh has gained some experience in the NFL he will have gone against the toughest competition and learned from it. Also, best believe he will be fine-tuning his game and working on his skills endlessly. So I see a slight learning curve/adjustment period for Suh, but eventually he will again be the beast we knew at Nebraska.

 
Not to take anything away from Suh, but comparing college linemen to their college counterparts won't work. NFL guys have: more weight, more strength, more experience, and - most importantly, more skills. The best coaches and trainers are in the NFL. Even an average NLF lineman would standout on any college team. The guys Suh blew away will mostly never play at a higher level. One college lineman who held his own was Texas Tech's Brandon Carter, and Carter's nowhere near the top OL in the draft.

I'd pick Suh #1, but he won't dominate like in college.

 
I gotta tell ya I'm in the mood to watch Suh dominate McCoy & Oklahoma again :snacks: Never gets old :bonez

 
MUTigerFan said:
Not to take anything away from Suh, but comparing college linemen to their college counterparts won't work. NFL guys have: more weight, more strength, more experience, and - most importantly, more skills. The best coaches and trainers are in the NFL. Even an average NLF lineman would standout on any college team. The guys Suh blew away will mostly never play at a higher level. One college lineman who held his own was Texas Tech's Brandon Carter, and Carter's nowhere near the top OL in the draft.

I'd pick Suh #1, but he won't dominate like in college.
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This is one thing that has puzzled me. In 08' he was an All American, yet he doesn't show up very high in the mock drafts. I figured Carter would be getting more attention than he's gotten.

 
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