Home Owners Assoc Commys

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Irregular News for 12.06.06

Lino Lakes, MN -- World War II veteran Robert Goergen knows he's breaking the rules at his home in Lino Lakes, yet he vows to fight for his right to fly his beloved United States flag as it was meant to be flown -- high and free in the wind.

At issue is the placement of a 15-foot flagpole that Goegen planted outside his condominium. Condo managers say the flag is flying on land that belongs to the association, not to him, and they're demanding that he remove the pole and fly the flag according to regulations.

"What if he wanted to put that flagpole in your yard?" asked Bob Voeller, president of the Marshan Lake Condominium Association. "He doesn't own that, either."

Worry disrupts Goergen's sleep, but he refuses to take down the flagpole or pay the $25 fine imposed on him for his defiance.

The association has threatened to take him to court, but the 81-year-old retired truck driver won't budge.

"I can't see any court in the United States of America that would refuse to let me fly the flag," he said. "I'm a veteran, and I fought for that flag."

Goergen is not the first homeowner to fight a community association for the right to fly an American flag. Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, such disagreements have become so common that several states, including Minnesota, have passed "flag waver" bills, said David Hellmuth, a partner with Hellmuth and Johnson, an Eden Prairie law firm that represents about 400 homeowners' associations throughout Minnesota. The laws generally say that associations can't adopt or enforce policies that restrict or prevent members from displaying the flag on residential property.

The Legislature passed such a bill in 2005, and in July President Bush signed the Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. One caveat of both laws, however, is that the resident must have exclusive possession or use of the property. Many condominium agreements, including Goergen's, specify that residents own only their unit.

"The reality is when you buy into these organizations, you have these restrictions in place," Hellmuth said. "You should know what you're getting into."

Hellmuth advises residents to remove the emotion and look at the issue in a legal way.

Goergen said he is unable to do that. "I know what the rules say," said the former Navy Seabee, who has flown a flag ever since he returned from the South Pacific in 1946. "But I don't agree with them."

Doing his job

Voeller said his job is to enforce association rules, which are meant to maintain property values. He doesn't believe the new laws apply to Goergen's case. Nor, he insists, is this a dispute about patriotism.

"We don't disrespect his service to the country," he said. "It's the fact that we have a way for the flag to be displayed and he doesn't want to do it that way."

Goergen said that for five years, he followed the association's flag rules by attaching a bracket to his front porch, but the wind wound the flag into a tight spiral around the pole.

"It looked terrible," he said. "It was a disgrace to the flag."

Last spring, Goergen planted a removable pole holder outside his living room window and hoisted his 3-by-5-foot flag. Tucked between two units, the pole is visible only to him and a few close neighbors whom, he said, seem to have no problem with it.

"I love to see it in the morning when I get out," said Johnell Lenter, 37, an administrative assistant who lives across the street. "It would be different if he were flying a Taliban flag, but it's an American flag, and it's not hurting anybody."

Goergen, who said he can't afford an attorney, took his case to the Lino Lakes City Council last month. But the city's attorney, Bill Hawkins, advised the council that the dispute was between Goergen and his homeowners' association and that the city couldn't help.

Seated at his dining room table, Goergen said he knows he would feel better if he could let the issue go, but he can't.

"I know I'm an old man, and I'm stubborn, but I don't understand this," he said. "Even if a court orders me, I will not remove that flag. I'm flying it the way it was meant to be flown."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo

Darlene Prois, Star Tribune

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoLast update: December 05, 2006 – 1:17 PM

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Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoWorld War II veteran Robert Goergen knows he's breaking the rules at his home in Lino Lakes, yet he vows to fight for his right to fly his beloved United States flag as it was meant to be flown -- high and free in the wind.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoAt issue is the placement of a 15-foot flagpole that Goegen planted outside his condominium. Condo managers say the flag is flying on land that belongs to the association, not to him, and they're demanding that he remove the pole and fly the flag according to regulations.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"What if he wanted to put that flagpole in your yard?" asked Bob Voeller, president of the Marshan Lake Condominium Association. "He doesn't own that, either."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoWorry disrupts Goergen's sleep, but he refuses to take down the flagpole or pay the $25 fine imposed on him for his defiance.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoThe association has threatened to take him to court, but the 81-year-old retired truck driver won't budge.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"I can't see any court in the United States of America that would refuse to let me fly the flag," he said. "I'm a veteran, and I fought for that flag."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoGoergen is not the first homeowner to fight a community association for the right to fly an American flag. Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, such disagreements have become so common that several states, including Minnesota, have passed "flag waver" bills, said David Hellmuth, a partner with Hellmuth and Johnson, an Eden Prairie law firm that represents about 400 homeowners' associations throughout Minnesota. The laws generally say that associations can't adopt or enforce policies that restrict or prevent members from displaying the flag on residential property.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoThe Legislature passed such a bill in 2005, and in July President Bush signed the Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. One caveat of both laws, however, is that the resident must have exclusive possession or use of the property. Many condominium agreements, including Goergen's, specify that residents own only their unit.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"The reality is when you buy into these organizations, you have these restrictions in place," Hellmuth said. "You should know what you're getting into."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoHellmuth advises residents to remove the emotion and look at the issue in a legal way.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoGoergen said he is unable to do that. "I know what the rules say," said the former Navy Seabee, who has flown a flag ever since he returned from the South Pacific in 1946. "But I don't agree with them."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoDoing his job

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoVoeller said his job is to enforce association rules, which are meant to maintain property values. He doesn't believe the new laws apply to Goergen's case. Nor, he insists, is this a dispute about patriotism.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"We don't disrespect his service to the country," he said. "It's the fact that we have a way for the flag to be displayed and he doesn't want to do it that way."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoGoergen said that for five years, he followed the association's flag rules by attaching a bracket to his front porch, but the wind wound the flag into a tight spiral around the pole.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"It looked terrible," he said. "It was a disgrace to the flag."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoLast spring, Goergen planted a removable pole holder outside his living room window and hoisted his 3-by-5-foot flag. Tucked between two units, the pole is visible only to him and a few close neighbors whom, he said, seem to have no problem with it.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"I love to see it in the morning when I get out," said Johnell Lenter, 37, an administrative assistant who lives across the street. "It would be different if he were flying a Taliban flag, but it's an American flag, and it's not hurting anybody."

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoGoergen, who said he can't afford an attorney, took his case to the Lino Lakes City Council last month. But the city's attorney, Bill Hawkins, advised the council that the dispute was between Goergen and his homeowners' association and that the city couldn't help.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condoSeated at his dining room table, Goergen said he knows he would feel better if he could let the issue go, but he can't.

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo 

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo"I know I'm an old man, and I'm stubborn, but I don't understand this," he said. "Even if a court orders me, I will not remove that flag. I'm flying it the way it was meant to be flown."'>source

Flag-raising raises a fuss at Lino Lakes condo

 

[HuskerExpat]

"The reality is when you buy into these organizations, you have these restrictions in place," Hellmuth said. "You should know what you're getting into."

That sums up the whole post. You shouldn't expect that you can violate the rules of your condo asosciation, regardless of how stupid you think the rule is.

 

[DaveH]

"The reality is when you buy into these organizations, you have these restrictions in place," Hellmuth said. "You should know what you're getting into."

That sums up the whole post. You shouldn't expect that you can violate the rules of your condo asosciation, regardless of how stupid you think the rule is.

Yea, that's kind of what I was going to say. He moved there, he agreed to the rules. What are you gonna do?

 

[Hawkeyehusker]

He is flying the flag on property that isn't his. If the flag was flying off of his patio or some other property that is actually his and not the community property then I'd say fine.

Perhaps the solution to this problem would be to get his neighbors together and jointly decide at a condo meeting where an approved area would be to fly the american flag. If the majority of condo owners want his flag flown they will approve it and designate a proper location for it.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I live in a townhome so we have one of these associations and let me tell you I'll never live in anything like this again..............I'm planning on moving in the Spring so I don't have to deal with the bullsh#t!!!!