How do teams get away with Over-recruiting?

[HUSKER 37]

Disturbing story about teams having to cull existing scholarship players to make room for new recruits.

Whole story including Saban video

....Nick Saban a "snake oil salesman" for signing a bulging incoming class that could never fit through NCAA-regulated doors.
...The issue is not 32 > 25. The issue is that 70 + 32 > 85.

- - -

This is pretty clear: outside of the five to seven scholarships Alabama has to nix from this class to get under the NCAA-mandated 25 (which might reasonably be achieved by academic culling and grayshirting, which is also fairly sketchy but common enough), it has to axe at least another half dozen existing scholarships to fit the incoming class on top of the number it has coming back. This happens to a couple fifth-year seniors on every team who've never played, who have their degrees, and who are probably pretty reasonable about it; it gets a line in a "News and Notes" column, maybe. At two or three, `Bama partisans may be right: "That's life." At three or four times that number, though, as Brian pointed out, that's a troubling bit of administrative indifference.

 

[Texas Aggie Football]

Disturbing story about teams having to cull existing scholarship players to make room for new recruits.

Whole story including Saban video

....Nick Saban a "snake oil salesman" for signing a bulging incoming class that could never fit through NCAA-regulated doors.
...The issue is not 32 > 25. The issue is that 70 + 32 > 85.

- - -

This is pretty clear: outside of the five to seven scholarships Alabama has to nix from this class to get under the NCAA-mandated 25 (which might reasonably be achieved by academic culling and grayshirting, which is also fairly sketchy but common enough), it has to axe at least another half dozen existing scholarships to fit the incoming class on top of the number it has coming back. This happens to a couple fifth-year seniors on every team who've never played, who have their degrees, and who are probably pretty reasonable about it; it gets a line in a "News and Notes" column, maybe. At two or three, `Bama partisans may be right: "That's life." At three or four times that number, though, as Brian pointed out, that's a troubling bit of administrative indifference.

It's just another another example of how the NCAA could really care less about it's student athletes that it is supposed to be representing.

 

[HUSKER 37]

It's just another another example of how the NCAA could really care less about it's student athletes that it is supposed to be representing.

I agree..You'd think that they could threaten probation or further reductions of scholarships..

Also, wonder how this kind of practice is not used as a recruiting tool by rival schools.

 

[Danimal]

I'd imagine he takes commits from guys that may-or-may-not qualify then if too many do get-in he just gives a couple of the current guys the boot to 1AA. Considering we are talking about the SEC this should be no surprise.

 

[HUSKER 37]

I'd imagine he takes commits from guys that may-or-may-not qualify then if too many do get-in he just gives a couple of the current guys the boot to 1AA. Considering we are talking about the SEC this should be no surprise.

Not sure we were talking about the SEC or what you mean by this.

Auburn appears to be the only other SEC team over their limit (By one) and is even with Kansas State.

Alabama is at least 11 over and 2nd place Miami is (only) 4 over their limit.

There was even mention of a Bear Bryant schollie for a transfer student that doesn't count against the total <_<

 

[pathtoglory]

well considering like 11 guys from bama didn't qualify, so they're alright

 

[Danimal]

I'd imagine he takes commits from guys that may-or-may-not qualify then if too many do get-in he just gives a couple of the current guys the boot to 1AA. Considering we are talking about the SEC this should be no surprise.

Not sure we were talking about the SEC or what you mean by this.

Auburn appears to be the only other SEC team over their limit (By one) and is even with Kansas State.

Alabama is at least 11 over and 2nd place Miami is (only) 4 over their limit.

There was even mention of a Bear Bryant schollie for a transfer student that doesn't count against the total <_<

You don't know what I mean by this? It is pretty simple. Alabama( a team that just got off probation for being dirty) is partaking in a very questionable recruiting-practice. They are part of a conference that is well-known for cheating and using questionable practices. So Alabama(or any SEC team outside of Vandy) doing this should not be surprising.

 

[AZ4NE1]

I'd imagine he takes commits from guys that may-or-may-not qualify then if too many do get-in he just gives a couple of the current guys the boot to 1AA. Considering we are talking about the SEC this should be no surprise.

Not sure we were talking about the SEC or what you mean by this.

Auburn appears to be the only other SEC team over their limit (By one) and is even with Kansas State.

Alabama is at least 11 over and 2nd place Miami is (only) 4 over their limit.

There was even mention of a Bear Bryant schollie for a transfer student that doesn't count against the total <_<

You don't know what I mean by this? It is pretty simple. Alabama( a team that just got off probation for being dirty) is partaking in a very questionable recruiting-practice. They are part of a conference that is well-known for cheating and using questionable practices. So Alabama(or any SEC team outside of Vandy) doing this should not be surprising.

I guess when I think of cheating conferences, I think of the old SWC or maybe Oklahoma..Not aware of the SEC having a history other than Alabama recently.

 

[Ohio Pete]

Nebraska had 31 or 32 in 2005's class, but it looks like more than 30 were leaving in each of the years around then.

 

[BigBL87]

Nebraska had 31 or 32 in 2005's class, but it looks like more than 30 were leaving in each of the years around then.

Exactly. I think that the pot is calling the kettle black here.

Nebraska has over-recruited in the recent past as well. There are certain loopholes, where players can count back to previous classes, and so on, that teams can take advantage of. Coaches can also usually count on a couple of transfers, grade casualties, or players leaving early. There may be more to this story then we know. For example...

Some of these guys they are signing might be "sign and place" guys who will sign their LOI, but not qualify and will be helped in finding a good JUCO to work on their grades at. Then, when they come out of JUCO, the school that they signed their LOI to will have a good chance at picking them up again.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Nebraska had 31 or 32 in 2005's class, but it looks like more than 30 were leaving in each of the years around then.

Exactly. I think that the pot is calling the kettle black here.

Nebraska has over-recruited in the recent past as well. There are certain loopholes, where players can count back to previous classes, and so on, that teams can take advantage of. Coaches can also usually count on a couple of transfers, grade casualties, or players leaving early. There may be more to this story then we know. For example...

Some of these guys they are signing might be "sign and place" guys who will sign their LOI, but not qualify and will be helped in finding a good JUCO to work on their grades at. Then, when they come out of JUCO, the school that they signed their LOI to will have a good chance at picking them up again.

Not sure how the author (Who I think is a Mississippi State alum) can be considered a "pot"?

The thing that seems to be bothering him (And Me) the most, is the probability of taking away scholarships from existing players already on the team. I seem to remember a Basketball movie with Robbie Benson that showed that happening, but I haven't really heard of that happening at Nebraska, or anywhere else. (I do assume it has happened).

It seemed like Bill Callahan signed large classes, but I just assumed it was because I was used to Tom Osborn holding a few Scholarships back for walk-ons.

The way longtime support staff was being treated, and the number of players transferring, I wouldn't be overly surprised that we were guilty of similar treatment of players under the last coaching staff, but I haven't seen any mention of it on the inter-webs. (Where it must be true if you see it there).

To be fair, you can’t talk about what Alabama’s doing unless you compare it to what other schools are doing. A handful of teams oversign every year (usually a different handful), so there is something to the claim that "everybody does it." But while those teams might have to cut scholarships to get down to the required 25 this year, once that number is met, they’re not giving away existing scholarships. Everybody does not do that.

Tim Gayle's piece on the massive 'Bama oversigning is disturbing. Gayle crunches the numbers and comes to these conclusions:
Four to six guys are not going to qualify.

Four more guys who are marginally useful can plausibly be given medical scholarships and removed from the team.

Six more scholarships need to be forcibly extracted from somewhere.

Around six guys who are playing for Alabama now or expect to be in the fall are going to be told to get bent by the time fall practice rolls around. But let's all complain about how nasty Rich Rodriguez is, why don't we?

Some might argue that no one's really hurt by the practice of oversigning, but this shocking assertion from Bruce Feldman's latest post($) argues otherwise?

One administrator I spoke with said schools also can make it so some player doesn't qualify if they don't need him to, which may sound surprising, but it probably shouldn't at this point.

Jesus. That's truly filthy. When this happens a kid who manages to get qualified is shuffled off to a JUCO or prep school because there's not enough room for him. The school who signed him to a letter of intent is screwing him out of a chance to play at an actual D-I school for purely selfish motives.

The NCAA really has to do something about this. Feldman makes a point that the new APR restrictions do impose a cost upon teams that cycle through players willy-nilly, but your APR isn't affected when a kid who signed a LOI with your team doesn't qualify.

The 25-kid limit is a great idea that hurts schools who experience extreme attrition, but it's a paper tiger. Anyone who comes in for the winter semester, either via grayshirt or early enrollment, can count against either class. It's time to stop that and count kids against the class their high school teammates are in. And it's time to limit the number of LOIs schools can accept, and do away with these fictional classes of 30+ that do nothing but prop up egos and damage the careers of kids at the bottom of them.

Clemson's treatment of Ray Ray McElrathbey is simply wrong