Husker defensive front will boast depth
- Thread starter NUance
- Start date
RedDenver
Heisman Trophy Winner
You're just splitting hairs over terminology here. The poster is saying we're likely to see something similar to the defense used against Mizzou, and he calls it the 3-4. You call it the hybrid nickel or whatever. Same defense either way.
huskerfan333157
Starter
OK, so that means the nickel and 3-4 are the same difference. Since its only "terminology" i might as well call 3-2-6 the same as the 3-4. Who cares, its only terminology, right? I guess if a qb gets the terminology wrong in the huddle then it would not make a difference since its "only terminology." Terminology actually matters in football, but according to you a 4-3, 3-4, dime, dime 3-2-6, nickel, 335, 425 are one in the same, since its "only terminology."
RedDenver
Heisman Trophy Winner
Come on down off your high horse there fella. That's not at all what I was saying, and I think you know it. The only thing that matters in terminology (in all terminology, not just football) is that the people involved in the discussion are talking about the same thing. I could call the defense we ran with Cam standing up against Mizzou the "Snarky" defense, and that's just as good as any other term as long as we both know what I'm talking about. The point of this thread and much of the discussion is about the defensive front depth and how we might use it. Call it what you will.
If you really don't like the terms being used, you could suggest another term for what the poster is describing. Or you can jump all over the guy and be an a$$, which isn't going to win you any support and generally makes you look like an idiot who's trying to sound smart.
Blackshirt316
Starter
Was it a typical pro style 3-4 with a nose two ends and four linebackers? No. Of course not. But that doesn't change the fact that we had 3 guys with their hand in the dirt, four guys behind them who's first step was typically towards the QB and four guys behind them looking to backpedal first. Is Cam a 3-4 hybrid linebacker/end like a Demarcus Ware or a Bryan Orakpo? No, but was still playing the Jack position when he's standing up nonetheless and will probably be used at times in that role this year - though depending on whether they bring Cassidy down, bring in another safety and take out a linebacker or go with 3 linebackers it could resemble more of the prototypical 3-4 or be basically what we did last year against Missouri. You can call it the 3-4 the hybrid peso, the jolly rancher or anything else you want to call it - the QB still sees the same look, we just use players with different skill-sets depending on the matchup. Just like the Peso is still a 4-3 look, it's just used with guys a little more suited to play the pass than the run.
huskerfan333157
Starter
I actually used the PROPER terminology, did you even see the links that druski posted? Im guessing you didnt take the time to actually look at them? In those links, it specifically says its a hybrid DIME defense. People keep saying we ran the "3-4" against missouri when its clearly WRONG. So its ok to that we used the wrong terminology or state a total different defense than what was actually used? So thats pretty much us being ignorant and not using the proper facts. If you talk about something, you need to know all the facts behind it! So if people keep talking about characteristics of a soda but what im drinking is pepsi but its actually a sprite then its ok to call the pepsi a sprite because the generalizations are the same.
huskerfan333157
Starter
once again, did you look at druski's links? Did it even mention the 3-4 in it? No, it was dime. But I guess you think the nickle and the 4-2-5 are the same defense. Every type of defense has a name, you dont say "it is the 3-4" when its not, its called using proper terminology. It was hybrid dime defense, mainly dime 3-2-6 hybrid (if you look at how they were set up its more of a 3-2-6 hybrid than a 3-4).
zoogs
Assistant Coach
I actually kinda thought 4-2-5 was a nickel defense...
But really, the defensive front is what I'm interested in. I know we did weird things with our DB/LB/"PB"s lats year. But sliding a DT out to DE, and moving a DE to stand-up outside linebacker, is the basic principle that screams "3-4 front" to me, so I don't know if it's too unfair to call it that, with our odd defensive backfields package as a caveat. I did not realize we did this against Missouri. Cam was a strongside(?) linebacker? And Crick as one of the DEs with Stein as NT? Technically, I guess you are right, it's a 3-2-6 - or a 3-3-5 is the peso is considered a linebacker (I always considered it just...nickelback).
But if we run a base 4-3 this year as claimed by the coaches, and I don't see why we wouldn't, then showing that kind of 3-man front look results in a true 3-4 front. Which gives some promise to the idea of some 3-4 being run this year. I'm sure we've done wacky stuff before, like 5 down linemen or 1 down lineman, but I don't think that (or the 3-4 variability) makes us into a 3-4 team. I think we'll run out of a 4-3 base still with a 4-man front. The Pats are a committed 3-4 team, but they showed 4-man front looks often last year.
(EDIT), or not! After looking at the brophog post that druski linked to, even what we did with our DL personnel was just flat out weird. I didn't think Allen was really stout enough to be 3-4 DE material and as it turns out, they had him playing in the middle. The nose? And kicked out BOTH DTs outside the edge, lining them up outside the tackles apparently, to stop runs. Didn't read what Meredith's role was, possibly run support. Anyway, it seems very innovative and far too out-of-the-box to label as a 3-4, and also pitter-patters the possibility that we'll do that again this year outside of special situational circumstances. Two DTs outside the tackles...man, do we have some outstanding defensive coaches or what!
But really, the defensive front is what I'm interested in. I know we did weird things with our DB/LB/"PB"s lats year. But sliding a DT out to DE, and moving a DE to stand-up outside linebacker, is the basic principle that screams "3-4 front" to me, so I don't know if it's too unfair to call it that, with our odd defensive backfields package as a caveat. I did not realize we did this against Missouri. Cam was a strongside(?) linebacker? And Crick as one of the DEs with Stein as NT? Technically, I guess you are right, it's a 3-2-6 - or a 3-3-5 is the peso is considered a linebacker (I always considered it just...nickelback).
But if we run a base 4-3 this year as claimed by the coaches, and I don't see why we wouldn't, then showing that kind of 3-man front look results in a true 3-4 front. Which gives some promise to the idea of some 3-4 being run this year. I'm sure we've done wacky stuff before, like 5 down linemen or 1 down lineman, but I don't think that (or the 3-4 variability) makes us into a 3-4 team. I think we'll run out of a 4-3 base still with a 4-man front. The Pats are a committed 3-4 team, but they showed 4-man front looks often last year.
(EDIT), or not! After looking at the brophog post that druski linked to, even what we did with our DL personnel was just flat out weird. I didn't think Allen was really stout enough to be 3-4 DE material and as it turns out, they had him playing in the middle. The nose? And kicked out BOTH DTs outside the edge, lining them up outside the tackles apparently, to stop runs. Didn't read what Meredith's role was, possibly run support. Anyway, it seems very innovative and far too out-of-the-box to label as a 3-4, and also pitter-patters the possibility that we'll do that again this year outside of special situational circumstances. Two DTs outside the tackles...man, do we have some outstanding defensive coaches or what!
Last edited by a moderator:
druski_2k5
Five-Star Recruit
The 4-2-5 is a hybrid Nickel, but the only difference is that the positioning is a little different, and you can obviously do some different things from the look.
Personally I love the 4-2-5.
The Nickel is 4 down lineman, two linebackers, one Nickel back, two corners and two safety high. Much like our Peso defense. The Peso and Nickel are the same look.
The 4-2-5 though....
Link image: http://americanfootballmonthly.com/Subaccess/Magazine/2010/April/images/MHS-02.jpg
4 down linemen, with two linebackers. Just like the nickel. However, the Free Safety is lined up directly over the ball, two corners on the outside, and the Strong Safety and the 3rd Safety is lined up on the outside of the defensive line.
TCU's base defense is a 4-2-5, and we used a base 4-2-5 against Texas Tech in 2008, but I believe that was the last time we used a true base 4-2-5.
Last edited by a moderator:
huskerfan333157
Starter
Sure we can run some 3-4, but i hope we dont do it all that often. Im just worried about the fact we have no depth at lb AND our lb's seem to be injury prone. Plus, our personnel strength would be 4-3 this year and not the 3-4. Seems like most coaches will do some 3-4 packages when they run a 4-3 base defense, so we will surely see some 3-4 but not very often