If Bo doesn't let go of Wats...

junior4949 said:
Watson should leave, and I believe he will resign sometime in the next 60 days. I don't think he's a bad OC, but rather he's been saddled with extremely inept position coaches. It's like hiring a writer but instead of giving them a word processor or computer you give them a hammer, chisel, and a slab of stone. If Watson is the only offensive coach gone, it won't matter who's calling the plays next year. I still ask all of you armchair QB's just exactly what plays would you call if your offensive line can't block anyone, your running backs and quarterback fumble nearly four times per game, and your wide receivers can't catch passes?
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A couple screen passes work wonders when facing an aggressive defense constantly getting in the back field. Maybe even a draw play or two as well, but don't run the zone read every other play or try to run play action when there is no run threat.

 
zoogies said:
Right - he was also scout team QB, but that is a role where he pretends to be athletic QBs on other teams.

My point is he wasn't really brought along as a QB in this system like say, Carnes has been this year. It is unfair to compare Brion as a RFr compared to Taylor as a RFr in that way, as Brion would have had much more development time by next August than Taylor had this past August. A defense of Taylor for those who say 'He's had all this time as QB, why is he still behind' - he hasn't had all that much time.
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I doubt that Brion has developed much at all. Watsgrove hasn't developed his top 2 qb's, what makes us think that he can develop a RS that is not even on the depth chart or getting reps with the top offensive units.

 
Did Watson even coach Martinez last year? From what I've been told, he was on the scout team as a wide receiver last year. How can you devlop someone when you're not even his position coach? Last year, Bo rammed Cody down Watson's throat. This year, Bo rammed Martinez down Watson's throat. By all rights, both were first year players.

 
74Hunter said:
zoogies said:
Right - he was also scout team QB, but that is a role where he pretends to be athletic QBs on other teams.

My point is he wasn't really brought along as a QB in this system like say, Carnes has been this year. It is unfair to compare Brion as a RFr compared to Taylor as a RFr in that way, as Brion would have had much more development time by next August than Taylor had this past August. A defense of Taylor for those who say 'He's had all this time as QB, why is he still behind' - he hasn't had all that much time.
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I doubt that Brion has developed much at all. Watsgrove hasn't developed his top 2 qb's, what makes us think that he can develop a RS that is not even on the depth chart or getting reps with the top offensive units.
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You are not basing this on any hint of reality.

All we have heard is that Brion has been doing very well, in fact.

Lee has come a ways, Green has come a long ways from where he started. As I said in another thread, the question is not if Watson is a good QBs coach. It is whether what he asks of QBs in his system, is too much for us to effectively use. Especially given the kinds of QBs we are bringing in here.

 
zoogies said:
the question is not if Watson is a good QBs coach. It is whether what he asks of QBs in his system, is too much for us to effectively use. Especially given the kinds of QBs we are bringing in here.
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can't really argue w/ this...but isn't part of being a good QB coach knowing what to ask of your QBs and staying within their abilities. Ask too much of them and they fail, fail and they lose confidence, lose confidence and you lose 3 out of your last 4 games to indecision.

 
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You can make that argument, and I suspect Watson would take responsibility and agree with you. I am speaking to more of a clashing of systems here. I can't fault Watson for retaining his core passing principles when asked to move to an otherwise spread option game. The jury is still out on whether that can work at this level but I suspect most have run out of patience. Nonetheless, you look around at the best offenses today and it isn't about scheme, it is about the foundation and work laid down and time put in to install and perfect a great system.

It is what Bo has done with the defense, but not what we have done with our offense. Our offense never even had the chance, it has been torn up and put in flux continuously since Bo has gotten here. Will it have the chance going forward? It is not Watson's bread and butter especially if you want to tear the WCO principles out of it, so he may as well go somewhere else and get free reign, and we may as well find someone and give them the chance to put in the work on this scheme. No shortcuts, Bo should have learned his lesson by now. I hope.

I wouldn't put Taylor's failings as a QB on anyone really, not even on him. Maybe Taylor isn't a film rat/student of the game that any QB needs to be, I don't know. But even if he isn't, he is behind the ball to begin with just on his experience, and that is really for any system. Taylor is just fundamentally very behind.

 
PaulCrewe said:
Point 4 is pretty accurate. I have had a friend on the team tell me that the SDSU game was no accident. There were many(OLiinemen) that could care less about the well being of Taylor. Something that I have mentioned before.
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If this is true, then why aren't we bashing the O-linemen for having a piss-poor attitude?

 
bshirt said:
Well, I really don't care if Tmart isn't much of a rah-rah guy. Frost/Frazier/Crouch weren't either but they did ok.

I don't want to go completely off topic but Ganz/08's offense wasn't really that good. Especially vs any decent defense (gee, what a surprise). Missou and Oklahoma stuffed us without mercy (yeah, I know.....4 complete garbage TDs vs OU looks good for the stats but....). Ganz had a good senior year. Not great but good. Lots of senior qbs have good years. I don't see how that makes SW a guru qb coach.

Maybe you're right about a new OC. I admit to having nothing but hope for that.

While everybody disses Tmart I'm still on his bandwagon (there's lots of extra room!). Imo the guy is a HUGE playmaker and any decent HC wants those guys on the field with the ball in their hands. When healthy he's real-deal electric. You just can't coach that acceleration and if any offense in the nation needs playmakers, it's us.

We'll see compadre'. If I'm right we're gonna steamroll the Big10 into submission. For the next three years (minimum). If I'm wrong.....heck, I'll just buy ya a beer of your choice.

GBR!!
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I of course respect your views and opinions as I always will with anyone, even give the complete and utter dumbasses(not you) a chance at first. We will see, the future can be as bright as we want it to be, but alas it is out of armchair QB/Coaches hands.

Last points, not to start more bickering, Frost was a HUGE cheerleader on the team, especially in 97. Crouch was always there celebrating with skill players after scores as well. Just little things like this would do Taylor a lot of good in the eyes of many,

Ganz, yes was a victem of No Game Shawn vs good teams, but when he threw it was on time, in stride, and the guy could make stuff happen with his legs and ARM when the pocket and play collapsed. Taylor has light years to go with pocket presence.

Finally as much as a playmaker as Taylor is, he lacks a lot to be a playmaker at QB full time IMO. Not giving up complete hope of him maturing into something great, hell all Husker fans hope that. Like I said this will be a very interesting offseason.

And for the record, I don't need to be right to enjoy a beer with anybody. I never pass up an opportunity to drink with fellow Huskers. Maybe this fall we can throw back a few, and banter each other over what transpires these next eight months.

 
Taylor Martinez is a freshman. He has played in a grand total of 13 games in his career, half of which he has been injured.

All you guys casting him to the curb - do you think it's maybe just a BIT premature?

 
zoogies said:
You can make that argument, and I suspect Watson would take responsibility and agree with you. I am speaking to more of a clashing of systems here. I can't fault Watson for retaining his core passing principles when asked to move to an otherwise spread option game. The jury is still out on whether that can work at this level but I suspect most have run out of patience. Nonetheless, you look around at the best offenses today and it isn't about scheme, it is about the foundation and work laid down and time put in to install and perfect a great system.

It is what Bo has done with the defense, but not what we have done with our offense. Our offense never even had the chance, it has been torn up and put in flux continuously since Bo has gotten here. Will it have the chance going forward? It is not Watson's bread and butter especially if you want to tear the WCO principles out of it, so he may as well go somewhere else and get free reign, and we may as well find someone and give them the chance to put in the work on this scheme. No shortcuts, Bo should have learned his lesson by now. I hope.

I wouldn't put Taylor's failings as a QB on anyone really, not even on him. Maybe Taylor isn't a film rat/student of the game that any QB needs to be, I don't know. But even if he isn't, he is behind the ball to begin with just on his experience, and that is really for any system. Taylor is just fundamentally very behind.
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good post, i think your insight is correct, i really get the feeling TM will not study film and improve, i am not even sure he is committed to Wats philosophy, whatever the hell it might be... :madash

 
knapplc said:
Taylor Martinez is a freshman. He has played in a grand total of 13 games in his career, half of which he has been injured.

All you guys casting him to the curb - do you think it's maybe just a BIT premature?
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the only reason Im off the Martinez bandwagon is because he has not improved from game 1 to game 14. By game 14 your not a freshman anymore, despite being injured in 2 of those games.

 
knapplc said:
Taylor Martinez is a freshman. He has played in a grand total of 13 games in his career, half of which he has been injured.

All you guys casting him to the curb - do you think it's maybe just a BIT premature?
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So, if Watson's still OC next year, and T-Mart is still our QB, you would expect some growth outta T-Mart, but will Watson keep putting him in situations, where his chances to fail, increase.

I would like to see what happens with T-Mart, under a different OC. At that point, I think we'll be able to see what he's truly got to offer.

 
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