Malaysia Airlines 777 Down in Ukraine

Mavric

Mavric

Yoda
Staff member
An adviser to Ukraine's Interior Ministry said a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane carrying more than 200 people crashed Thursday while flying over the east Ukraine region of Donetsk.


Malaysia Airlines confirmed it had lost contact with Flight MH17 and its last known position was over Ukrainian airspace.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 departed from Amsterdam around noon on Thursday and was due to arrive in Kuala Lumpur early Friday.

The plane went down near the city of Torez in the Donetsk region while flying at a height of about 10,000 meters, according to Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Ministry.
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Unconfirmed reports are saying it was shot down.

 
I flip over to CNN and apparently this is all the fault of the airline for flying over a war zone. Yeah sure.

 
What a convenient method to drum up additional Russophobic sentiment in the West (as if any additional measures were REALLY necessary).

 
Seeing reports on tv that the separatist state this plane went down in is preventing Ukraine officials from getting to the crash site.

 
...and he doesn't say much other than the standard gathering information, working with ukranian gov't, etc etc.

 
tschu said:
I flip over to CNN and apparently this is all the fault of the airline for flying over a war zone. Yeah sure.
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It probably is. The US FAA has a Notice to Airmen out there that prohibits flying over those areas in the Ukraine for precisely that reason. This didn't apply to this Malaysian Airlines flight, of course. But had they operated under a similar protocol, it could have easily been avoided. Of course it also could have been avoided if whoever (possibly?) launched the SAM didn't do that. But commercial airlines owe it to their passengers not to trust their lives to the goodwill or good judgment of [range of potential SAM operators presently in X volatile region].

List of airliner shootdown incidents.

There's some interesting ones there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Especially that second one. In what appears to be a colossal error of identification, the US shot down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290 people, inside Iranian airspace, in 1988, with no apology to date from the United States. Wow.

 
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I've already seen that this is a known route that has been in use the last several months. And if you really want to be sure, you go allll the way around. But what I'm saying is, you don't knee-jerk blame the airline in this instance. You blame Russia or the pro-Russians or a possible terrorist group or whatever.

 
tschu said:
I've already seen that this is a known route that has been in use the last several months. And if you really want to be sure, you go allll the way around. But what I'm saying is, you don't knee-jerk blame the airline in this instance. You blame Russia or the pro-Russians or a possible terrorist group or whatever.
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Hahahahahahaha....why?

 
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I'd blame the airline. It takes bad guys too on the other side who deserve blame, but whoever decided they didn't really need to be sure has clearly made a catastrophically bad assessment of the risk. As for in use in the past several months, things could be changing and escalating by the day there. The FAA doesn't have that notice out there for nothing, and opting not to place any amount of faith in any of the active combatants in the area...has proved to be the better call. One wonders why this wasn't the only obvious call to begin with.

NY Times article on the incident. Shows the flight map from Amsterdam. Ukranian officials suggesting Russian AA. Insurgents say their AA abilities couldn't have reached the plane at that altitude.

 
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Creighton Duke said:
tschu said:
I've already seen that this is a known route that has been in use the last several months. And if you really want to be sure, you go allll the way around. But what I'm saying is, you don't knee-jerk blame the airline in this instance. You blame Russia or the pro-Russians or a possible terrorist group or whatever.
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Hahahahahahaha....why?
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I'm not trying to specifically point a finger because info is limited at this point, but you do point the finger at, say, the group that shot the plane down, not the plane itself. And right now a lot of reports indicate that it was a Russian missile, likely supplied to a the pro-russian groups. But again, nothing confirmed at all at this point

 
I sure hope your Black Sea lakefront property isn't on the Crimean peninsula there Duke. Gosh that'd be rough wouldn't it.

 
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