QUARTERBACK PLAY

[True2tRA]

I'm sick of the overreactions on both sides.

This is kind of ironic.

/Easy. Relax! It was a joke!

Ya. On the list of thousands of overreactions by Martinez lovers and realists, consider that the last one of mine. I'm tired of talking about the kid. To be clear, I've always felt I was in the middle. I appreciates his hard work, I loved his athleticism and running ability, but I also knew athleticism and running ability doesn't equal quarterback. Not in today's football anyway. It seems harder for some to admit Martinez's weakness's. I've just always appreciated that he worked so hard to overcome them.

 

[Mavric]

Qb coach was added to his title this season.

No. He's been the QB coach since he was promoted to OC.

 

[Elbow Bursitis]

Qb coach was added to his title this season.

No. He's been the QB coach since he was promoted to OC.

Looks like you're right.

Beck is our qb coach by title just like Els is our special teams coach by title. Its a technicality. Martinez still had to go elsewhere for mechanics lessons.

 

[HeyBurke]

I think that Tommy and Johnny have the potential to be very good. That being said, who is going to guide them to greatness? Do you believe that we have some people on staff that are capable of developing a championship/NFL QB?

Tim Beck is not a quarterbacks coach. RK3 is going to be a GA next year.

No one on staff has directly overseen the development of a big time QB. Taylor was great and he put up some very impressive numbers, rewrote the record book, but we all know what his career was missing.

Ron worked hard, paid his dues and got his much-deserved chance last year.Tommy still beat him for the starting spot, though. So now Ron is going to be coaching the guy whom he could not beat out? I just do not get what Kellogg could teach Armstrong.

How do we develop a championship QB if no one on staff has ever coached one or been one?

It's a team game blah blah blah but quarterback is the most important position.

gonna be a long offseason

Sam Wyche is one of the greatest QB coaches in NFL history, but he wasn't that good of a QB in his playing days. Guess what, just because a guy isn't a great player doesn't mean he isn't a great coach.

 

[Enhance]

Oh yeah, for those who say we need a "designated" QB coach position, which position coach job do we get rid of for it? Here are some successful schools who do not have a "designated" QB coach position, and it works out fine for them, as I think it will for us.

Texas A&M

Alabama

LSU

Oregon

Stanford

University of Southern California

Wisconsin

Louisville

Michigan

Ohio State

Thanks for looking into that. Admittedly, laziness stopped me from doing it earlier

I was never a huge fan of Martinez, but he was our quarterback and (for many years) the best option on our roster. But, him being the best option is not his fault, that's on the coaches and recruiting. Considering how awful his mechanics were, he turned into a decent QB. Sure, he never led Nebraska to anything of real substance, but given his skill set I think he became about the best we could've hoped for. And, I still feel too much heat gets put on him for not winning big games - lack of a defense really did no favors to him for two years. Not saying he was faultless, but a minor factor imho.

Anyways, back to topic. I think that list Nick put together shows, clearly, a designated QB coach isn't necessary. As far as Beck is concerned, I think many fans feel he still has something to prove. Mechanically/fundamentally, I think a lot of QB's seek outside help. The OC just has to make sure that guy can run the offense.

 

[Redux]

If Beck is such a qb guru how come we aren't getting the qb's that would fit his system? Good OC would work the system around a qb if the qb doesn't fit the sytsem. Never forcing a qb run a system they can't.

Martinez was QB before Beck was play caller.

TA and Stanton will also have the benefit of not having OC changeups or conference switches that result in playbook changes.

 

[NUinID]

Do you think Kevin Sumlin taught Johnny Football to play like that or Jamise Winston has all that poise because of something that Jimbo Fisher did? Those kids were born that way.

A coach can work on enhancing and refining what is there, but they real great ones already have it.

Would Ganz fit into your description? Or any number of other high performing junior/seniors that didn't have the "it factor" the first day the set foot on campus?

I think you both are right. Certain great ones simply have it and can be refined and honed by coaching but will succeed mightily even in the absence of solid coaching contributions. Such players are comparatively rare. Guys like Ganz clearly do not fall into that category --- he was not that inherently gifted... but was skilled nonetheless. For guys like Ganz, it is still largely natural talent (in his case taking time to develop) but coaching can make a bigger difference in cases like this (a bigger differential) than with the superstars.

Ganz was a good QB but he wasn't a guy that was going to will his team to victory. I loved his play, but no I wouldn't put him in an elite QB category.

 

[Landlord]

If Beck is such a qb guru how come we aren't getting the qb's that would fit his system? Good OC would work the system around a qb if the qb doesn't fit the sytsem. Never forcing a qb run a system they can't.

How do we know that we have had QBs that haven't fit the system?

come on really? Martinez would've worked much better than having him be a drop back passer.

That's a pretty ignorant statement man, considering a few things:

1. The only thing you know about this offense is what's on the field. You don't know what's in Beck's head as far as "his system" that he should get quarterbacks to fit.

2. The three quarterbacks (Armstrong, Stanton, Darlington) we have gotten since Beck has been OC are still unknowns. Maybe he has gotten quarterbacks that fit his system perfectly.

3. Taylor has never been a good rollout passer. He just hasn't been. Find me video proof that suggests otherwise (you can't).

I'm so sick of every conversation I comment about a QB turns into me somehow bashing Taylor. Get over it folks, I think we will have better QB's at some point down the road.

Well, you know, if it happens every time, then maybe you are actually being unreasonable in your criticism. If I say the same thing consistently and I get a consistently poor reaction to it, my first response is to look at what I'm saying, not to start shouting and whining about everyone else.

 

[husker_99]

If Beck is such a qb guru how come we aren't getting the qb's that would fit his system? Good OC would work the system around a qb if the qb doesn't fit the sytsem. Never forcing a qb run a system they can't.

Martinez was QB before Beck was play caller.

TA and Stanton will also have the benefit of not having OC changeups or conference switches that result in playbook changes.

conference switches is a weak argument. It doesn't matter that Martinez was a qb before Beck was play caller. A good play caller adjusts to the needs of the qb and how the qb plays, not try to force him to do stuff he can't. Now Martinez did do a good job with what he had but every down qb that can pass he was not.

 

[tmfr15]

The ideal QB for Beck's offense is a guy who can maipulate the pocket, run when the opportunity presents itself and deliver short to intermeidate passes that lead receivers and backs into open spaces. We don't need a guy who has an NFL-ready arm and we don't need a guy who can run the 40 in 4.0. We need a guy who has quick feet, who is crafty and who has a charasmatic ability to lead. A guy like that is going to empower the players around him and we have quite a few guys who are dangerous. Distribute the ball to Jamal, Kenny, our stable of backs, Carter.... and good things will happen.

 

[kchusker_chris]

I'm so sick of every conversation I comment about a QB turns into me somehow bashing Taylor. Get over it folks, I think we will have better QB's at some point down the road. So twenty years from now if I'm still here and you're still here and I say I'm really excited to see what the next QB at Nebraska can do in 2034, I don't want to f'ing hear,"what, you think he'll be better than Taylor?". YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I THINK SO!

It was an honest question. Do you really not think he audibled?

I never said he didn't audible!? Just because you audible a sh#t ton makes you Peyton f'ing Manning? No Manning is Manning because he audibles to THE RIGHT PLAY AFTER HE READS THE DEFENSE.

I know right now I'm making a mistake saying Peyton Manning, because some dumbass will say, " we'll True, not everyone is Peyton f'ing Manning". But that's completely not the point. You can audible all you want, doesn't mean it was the right play. Martinez misread the defense constantly. Opponents knew that weakness and fooled him quite often.

At this point, I don't care. When I refer to QB at Nebraska, I'm talking about Tommy Armstrong until otherwise is shown. You know, the guy that is 7-1 as a starter. The guy that led us to a win over Georgia in the bowl game. Yea, that guy. Taylor's eligibility ended last year.

I've gotta agree with you 100% on this one. If was quite obvious Taylor guessed about 75% of the time in the zone-read. He had trouble reading a defense. He struggled reading blitzes. And for as fast as he was, he had some pretty limited scrambling ability which made compensating for his errors tough. (don't even bother to insert the link to his Wisconsin touchdown, I'll just respond with the Washington 2.0 game or Oklahoma or a million other times he stood like a deer in the headlights taking a sack as an example).

 

[tmfr15]

A lot of people compared T-Mart to Crouch in terms of running ability, but I think Crouch was the better runner. T-Mart's run against Wisky weaved through the defense. Crouch shook off a tackle to begin his run at Mizzou, then he had a pair of ankle breaking changes of direction that got him into the open where he finished the run.

T-Mart didn't have great passing ability. That's not in dispute. Neither did Crouch. But Crouch was in an offense that featured the option run. And he was much better at the option run than T-Mart could ever be.

 

[Landlord]

And for as fast as he was, he had some pretty limited scrambling ability which made compensating for his errors tough. (don't even bother to insert the link to his Wisconsin touchdown, I'll just respond with the Washington 2.0 game or Oklahoma or a million other times he stood like a deer in the headlights taking a sack as an example).

Translation:

Don't even bother to show me plays of his ability when he was healthy, because I will respond by showing you plays of his lack of ability when he was seriously injured.

 

[Redux]

If Beck is such a qb guru how come we aren't getting the qb's that would fit his system? Good OC would work the system around a qb if the qb doesn't fit the sytsem. Never forcing a qb run a system they can't.

Martinez was QB before Beck was play caller.

TA and Stanton will also have the benefit of not having OC changeups or conference switches that result in playbook changes.

conference switches is a weak argument. It doesn't matter that Martinez was a qb before Beck was play caller. A good play caller adjusts to the needs of the qb and how the qb plays, not try to force him to do stuff he can't. Now Martinez did do a good job with what he had but every down qb that can pass he was not.

Well you claimed Beck couldn't get a QB that fit his system (bolded above). Taylor was here and was the starting QB before Beck was put in the Offensive Coordinator position. Taylor was the best option at QB every one of the 4 years he was the starter. That means he had the best grasp, the best presence, and the best understanding of all the options at the position.

As far as Beck forcing him into a role he couldn't handle, that is a weak argument. If that were true, perhaps the other options we had would have struggled more than Taylor supposedly did. My guess would be that when Taylor wasn't "grasping" the system or Beck was "forcing" him, is that Taylor was banged up or maybe, just maybe, the other team scouted us before hand. Wild concept I know. But maybe they prepared for Taylor to be a legitimate threat to them and adjusted properly.

 

[Enhance]

I'm so sick of every conversation I comment about a QB turns into me somehow bashing Taylor. Get over it folks, I think we will have better QB's at some point down the road. So twenty years from now if I'm still here and you're still here and I say I'm really excited to see what the next QB at Nebraska can do in 2034, I don't want to f'ing hear,"what, you think he'll be better than Taylor?". YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I THINK SO!

You made a claim on page one basically stating TM didn't read offenses or audible well. Then, Mavric disputed your claim. That was it. I'm not sure why it turned so defensive after that point. I don't care what someone's feelings are on Martinez, but if you make an argument on here (regardless of topic), people have a right to disagree with you, no? I don't think it had anything to do with your feelings on TM in general.