QUARTERBACK PLAY

[Joe_5700]

Oh Ulty, you bring so much to discussions here. You da man.

I actually agree with you about Martinez for the most part, but I'm amused by the overreactions from both sides whenever the debate occurs. Carry on.

I think that's why I made the response I made. I'm sick of the overreactions on both sides. Truth is, the guy is a record holder, a good person, and respected by many Huskers ( fans and teammates). I respected the hard work he put in to get better. But there was a reason he had to spend off seasons with a QB coach! The only comment I made was that I want a guy at QB who doesn't need to spend the summer with Calhoun or who ever it was.......I want the guy that knows all that and works to learn the offense and timing with his WR's in his off time.

Both Martinez and Burkhead were pretty much robbed of their senior seasons. The difference was Rex had a very capable backup while Martinez did not. I am not bashing TA or RK, they just didn't have the experience or explosiveness.

 

[kchusker_chris]

And for as fast as he was, he had some pretty limited scrambling ability which made compensating for his errors tough. (don't even bother to insert the link to his Wisconsin touchdown, I'll just respond with the Washington 2.0 game or Oklahoma or a million other times he stood like a deer in the headlights taking a sack as an example).

Translation:

Don't even bother to show me plays of his ability when he was healthy, because I will respond by showing you plays of his lack of ability when he was seriously injured.

Pretty easy excuse to make considering he was "injured" for 95% of his career here.

 

[Ulty]

I've gotta agree with you 100% on this one. If was quite obvious Taylor guessed about 75% of the time in the zone-read. He had trouble reading a defense. He struggled reading blitzes. And for as fast as he was, he had some pretty limited scrambling ability which made compensating for his errors tough. (don't even bother to insert the link to his Wisconsin touchdown, I'll just respond with the Washington 2.0 game or Oklahoma or a million other times he stood like a deer in the headlights taking a sack as an example).

Wait a minute, injuries or not, your Okalahoma and Washington examples are from his freshman year. He clearly was a better scrambler, all season long, by the time he was a junior.

I've never been T-Mart's biggest fan either, but for all his faults, you can't ignore the progress that he made in his overall game.

 

[Landlord]

Pretty easy excuse to make considering he was "injured" for 95% of his career here.

Regardless, it's still true. Whether or not it's an 'easy' excuse is irrelevant when it's the fact of the matter.

And when he was healthy, his scrambling ability was far from limited.

example #1 -



example #11 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHgRGQiCT8

 

[zoogs]

come on really? Martinez would've worked much better than having him be a drop back passer.

...

1. The only thing you know about this offense is what's on the field. You don't know what's in Beck's head as far as "his system" that he should get quarterbacks to fit.

2. The three quarterbacks (Armstrong, Stanton, Darlington) we have gotten since Beck has been OC are still unknowns. Maybe he has gotten quarterbacks that fit his system perfectly.

3. Taylor has never been a good rollout passer. He just hasn't been. Find me video proof that suggests otherwise (you can't).

Basically exactly what Landlord said. I know we all like Taylor, but I just don't think it was ever that easy to design an offense around him...especially when he was hurt or limited. I also don't think Taylor was ever a drop-back passer. You aren't dropping back when you just sit in the 'gun.

Also, LL makes the great point that the QBs we've gotten under Beck started with Armstrong. I love Watson as a QBs coach, but the QB recruiting while he was here was really inconsistent. With Stanton following Armstrong, Beck has had a really, really promising start and I love the types of quarterbacks we're getting.

 

[Enhance]

From my perspective, I think someone like Crouch had quicker feet and could make people miss a little easier. TMart had that blazing straight line speed where if you let him get into gear, he could be gone and you wouldn't catch him. But, TMart showed he could make people miss too at times. I just don't think he looked as fluid doing it, and he was a bit more of an awkward runner (kept his body upright, had some rigid movements), which leads to the perception that he couldn't scramble well.

I don't think he was great at it, but he was decent. I do, however, contend his most valuable asset was finding the seam and being allowed to run straight through it.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Anyways, back to topic. I think that list Nick put together shows, clearly, a designated QB coach isn't necessary. As far as Beck is concerned, I think many fans feel he still has something to prove. Mechanically/fundamentally, I think a lot of QB's seek outside help. The OC just has to make sure that guy can run the offense.

Most big time QBs seeks outside help, even the pro's do during offseason.

Winston and Manziel are two previous Heisman winners who were working with QB camps/trainers. Manziel is working with one for Pro Days and to heighten his draft stock. I believe the only reason Winston isn't working with the one he usually does, is because he is playing baseball right now. I am also not sure on the rules about coaching still working with kids after the season until Spring training, but you think there are some in the NCAA, forcing these kids to look for camps.

With us finally getting some quality QB's, Beck will be able to show us what type of coach he is at that position. Up until this season, he has only had Martinez to work with since he took the job. Not exactly fair to say he can't do the job when he hasn't been given the opportunity to show what he can do. Lets see what type of improvements Armstrong makes, if any, before we make these conclusions.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

conference switches is a weak argument. It doesn't matter that Martinez was a qb before Beck was play caller. A good play caller adjusts to the needs of the qb and how the qb plays, not try to force him to do stuff he can't. Now Martinez did do a good job with what he had but every down qb that can pass he was not.

I agree that the conference change is a weak arguement, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Martinez fit in Beck's system, look at his stats under Beck if you don't believe he, and remember he was only healthy one season under Beck. I don't think Beck forced him to do anything he couldn't do (when he was healthy), because simply, he could do most of it. I do think the coaches made bad judgement on when to play Taylor. Beck has a system and he has now recruited 3 players who fit it (not counting Darlington, since he isn't cleared to play yet). Now its time to continue to get them in the door, because not every one of them will pan out.

 

[True2tRA]

If Beck is such a qb guru how come we aren't getting the qb's that would fit his system? Good OC would work the system around a qb if the qb doesn't fit the sytsem. Never forcing a qb run a system they can't.

How do we know that we have had QBs that haven't fit the system?

come on really? Martinez would've worked much better than having him be a drop back passer.

That's a pretty ignorant statement man, considering a few things:

1. The only thing you know about this offense is what's on the field. You don't know what's in Beck's head as far as "his system" that he should get quarterbacks to fit.

2. The three quarterbacks (Armstrong, Stanton, Darlington) we have gotten since Beck has been OC are still unknowns. Maybe he has gotten quarterbacks that fit his system perfectly.

3. Taylor has never been a good rollout passer. He just hasn't been. Find me video proof that suggests otherwise (you can't).

I'm so sick of every conversation I comment about a QB turns into me somehow bashing Taylor. Get over it folks, I think we will have better QB's at some point down the road.

Well, you know, if it happens every time, then maybe you are actually being unreasonable in your criticism. If I say the same thing consistently and I get a consistently poor reaction to it, my first response is to look at what I'm saying, not to start shouting and whining about everyone else.

Oh yes, change my opinion because some people don't like it? Lol. Sounds like something a coward would do. (not saying youre a coward, but you did say that would be your approach so....)There's a lot of things I think and believe that aren't of popular opinion, and I am grand with that. I believe popular opinion to be most times half assed, half brained, and not worth a damn. I went off the handle not because Mavrics opinion was different than mine, it was because his response to me wasn't based on anything I said. I said Taylor didn't read defenses well, and many times did not audible into a good play. Probably because he was working most of his career on things that most QB's at division one schools already know.

I've got to admit, your comment about changing my opinion because it isn't a well liked opinion may be one of the dumbest things I've heard. You don't know me at all kid.

 

[True2tRA]

Furthermore....I may criticize Taylor's play on the field, but that's the only thing I criticize, and I'd hardly say I'm ever real harsh about it. I was truly looking forward to seeing all his hard work pay off in his senior year, and the kid got robbed of it, period. I feel bad for any athlete that loses the pinnacle of their career due to an injury. That said, it is not up for debate what he focused much of his time on. It was reported by multiple people, multiple times, that Taylor was still learning the mechanics of being a QB. It's hard to dive into the more refined details of executing an offense when you are still learning the basics of the position. Now it's not his fault, he was put in that position and he was very successful in the beginning.

 

[Redux]

conference switches is a weak argument. It doesn't matter that Martinez was a qb before Beck was play caller. A good play caller adjusts to the needs of the qb and how the qb plays, not try to force him to do stuff he can't. Now Martinez did do a good job with what he had but every down qb that can pass he was not.

I agree that the conference change is a weak arguement, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Martinez fit in Beck's system, look at his stats under Beck if you don't believe he, and remember he was only healthy one season under Beck. I don't think Beck forced him to do anything he couldn't do (when he was healthy), because simply, he could do most of it. I do think the coaches made bad judgement on when to play Taylor. Beck has a system and he has now recruited 3 players who fit it (not counting Darlington, since he isn't cleared to play yet). Now its time to continue to get them in the door, because not every one of them will pan out.

Its not really that weak. Year 1 -Watson Big12, Year 2 -Watson B1G, Year 3 Beck B1G, Year 4 crippled by injury. You cant tell me he ever had a fluid year to year transition where he didnt have to learn new aspects that were different from the previous season. We never truly got to see him with a full season of preperation behind him for the task at hand. Thats why his Senior year was to be so special. Its ok if you dont agree with it but it would be foolish to ignore this completely.

 

[cg_8]

What was the original question again?

(going back to read)

OH yea! OK, so I think Ganz has been the QB coach as of late, despite not having the official title. He may not have won any championships, but he was the most efficient QB I have seen us play for quite some time. He may not have been a play maker or anything, but his vision and his ability to understand the concepts of each play, as well as how those work within the defense he was playing on each play. Also, his timing was great too. There were numerous games he just loved when the defense was playing a zone. He would time those passes perfectly within two players. He may not have had long bombs, or was incredibly athletic, but he was very efficient. He ran that offense so incredibly well. I know it was a Watson offense, but when everything clicks, it clicks. And it clicked with Ganz.

Additionally, I think we have had great recruits under Beck. Everyone seems to always turn Beck into some sort of idiot, but his offense is the most multiple I have seen in today's game. I know everyone wants to see us focus on one thing more than the other, but why? Why not play to our strengths? Our strength in 2012 was being multiple. We had the RBs to pound the ball when we needed, and we had Taylor throwing game winners when we needed. The WR talent was there. Why would we need to focus on one thing when we had the weapons to be multiple? 2013 was a year of injuries, if you think the offense was weak because of him, and not injuries or inexperience, then I am sorry you are unable to see reality.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Its not really that weak. Year 1 -Watson Big12, Year 2 -Watson B1G, Year 3 Beck B1G, Year 4 crippled by injury. You cant tell me he ever had a fluid year to year transition where he didnt have to learn new aspects that were different from the previous season. We never truly got to see him with a full season of preperation behind him for the task at hand. Thats why his Senior year was to be so special. Its ok if you dont agree with it but it would be foolish to ignore this completely.

I guess I am lost....

Here you say that the conference change argument isn't weak, but you don't say anything about it, besides one year in the Big 12. I think the OC change was WAY more of an issue than a little conference change.

Please, just so I can understand, why would a conference change hinder our offense? I can understand defense, since we were smaller than the average B1G DL,

 

[Enhance]

Additionally, I think we have had great recruits under Beck. Everyone seems to always turn Beck into some sort of idiot, but his offense is the most multiple I have seen in today's game. I know everyone wants to see us focus on one thing more than the other, but why? Why not play to our strengths? Our strength in 2012 was being multiple. We had the RBs to pound the ball when we needed, and we had Taylor throwing game winners when we needed. The WR talent was there. Why would we need to focus on one thing when we had the weapons to be multiple? 2013 was a year of injuries, if you think the offense was weak because of him, and not injuries or inexperience, then I am sorry you are unable to see reality.

We've got some pretty good talent under Beck, but if I may offer a different perspective for you...

Imagine you're in a job interview and someone asks you - what are your strengths? Is your answer going to be 'everything', or multiple? Most likely, no. We all have things we're good at and things we're not, and we base our choices, careers, etc., off those strengths.

I have no problem with us having varied offense - that's not what I'm saying. My question would be that when it's crunch time, and the game is on the line, what does Nebraska football feel it is best at? What does it feel will get them the first down, put them in position for that game winning field goal, or give them the opportunity score that game winning touchdown? Sometimes, it feels like they don't know. And, I personally believe, when you try to be good at everything, you end up being great at nothing.

Every offense needs to be multiple in order to keep the defense off balance, but like I said up above, I don't think your strength can be everything. I think you need to have a couple of strengths and then some other things to supplement those strengths.

 

[Redux]

Its not really that weak. Year 1 -Watson Big12, Year 2 -Watson B1G, Year 3 Beck B1G, Year 4 crippled by injury. You cant tell me he ever had a fluid year to year transition where he didnt have to learn new aspects that were different from the previous season. We never truly got to see him with a full season of preperation behind him for the task at hand. Thats why his Senior year was to be so special. Its ok if you dont agree with it but it would be foolish to ignore this completely.

I guess I am lost....

Here you say that the conference change argument isn't weak, but you don't say anything about it, besides one year in the Big 12. I think the OC change was WAY more of an issue than a little conference change.

Please, just so I can understand, why would a conference change hinder our offense? I can understand defense, since we were smaller than the average B1G DL,

You dont think Watson altered the offense a little when they changed leagues? Plus, none of the teams we faced from year to year were the same. It makes a difference. In order of impact thoug the OC change ranks higher than league change. But this is exactly what Im getting at. Taylor never had an easy year to year stretch.