Sweep Read, Power Read, Jet Read

J

jmfb

Banned
Lots of people think all of the meshes NU runs with the RB getting the ball or the QB keeping are Zone Reads

Some even think a lot of those sweep handoffs are sweep plays, same for the powers

Well they arent Its NUs version of Sweep Read, Power Read and Jet Read

The QB is reading a set unblocked defender on each play and it can change

Last year NU ran zone read on a few plays- I saw them run it in practice and games where they read the Tackle, not the DE.

ALSO on some plays it is a called give or keep and the play is blocked optimized for that call.

Here is some info that may help you understand it better, while we may not run it exactly like these guys, it gives you something to start with:



With the Power Read, same type of concept, but not zone blocking, pulling 1 or even 2 guards and power blocking it off tackle.

Jet read, same concept, but running the action off of the Jet Sweep.

This is why it's so important for THIS offense to have a mobile QB- if the threat to run is not legitimately there, then we really limit our playbook and what we do well.

It also hurts your constraint play action passes off of those backfield actions- as you dont have to worry too much about the QB run. One thing affects the other.

 
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Does that now make sense- why we have to have a QB who can and is willing to be a legitimate run threat and run well (not great) to make THIS offense work?

 
I see what you're saying here jmfb (and thanks muchly for this post and the other about the 10 personnel package), but I don't understand what changed in the Zone "Read" game from Taylor's freshman year to this year. We annihilated Kansas State with the Zone Read, whether they were reading the DE or the DT, and both Helu and Martinez had big games. Happy Birthday, Coach Snyder!
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Unless I was imagining things, Taylor seemed to be making an actual read in that game, and doing it quite well. He kept the ball in the RB's gut until the read defender committed and made the correct call, and either he or the RB took off.

That's the last time I can think of where I thought Taylor was being allowed to make an actual read, instead of having pre-planned keeps/gives. And that makes no sense to me.

I grasp the idea of blocking a certain way for a certain play, but whatever the reason Beck's doing the "read" package in a predetermined way, it's not nearly as effective today as it was when there was more of a true read.

Is this just Beck being Beck? Or did Taylor suddenly get dumber at making that read?

 
knapplc said:
Is this just Beck being Beck? Or did Taylor suddenly get dumber at making that read?
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Certainly seems like Taylor struggles with the read. I'm wondering if it doesn't have something to do w/ him being scared of putting the ball on the turf. That exchange is tough, and if he knows what he's doing going in his probably far more comfortable with things.

 
I'm maybe halfway through this video, but it seems that all of these plays are still a QB read -- the difference lying in how the blocking is done. I don't know why there's a difference in blocking though: what does the 'sweep read' offer that the one blocking doesn't? Is it just more optimized for the RB to run outside while making it less optimal for the QB to pull it down and keep it?

I can't remember if we were letting Taylor making reads in his freshman year. For me, I can't tell. I remember people saying that they were mostly designed runs/gives..and that we tore up KSU pretty bad because their second level demonstrated some abominably bad angles throughout the game.

With our offense currently under Taylor, four years later, do we run these mesh point plays more or less? My impression has been it's less, and I have no idea if Taylor is being asked to make the reads or not.

 
jmfb said:
Lots of people think all of the meshes NU runs with the RB getting the ball or the QB keeping are Zone Reads

Some even think a lot of those sweep handoffs are sweep plays, same for the powers

Well they arent Its NUs version of Sweep Read, Power Read and Jet Read

The QB is reading a set unblocked defender on each play and it can change

Last year NU ran zone read on a few plays- I saw them run it in practice and games where they read the Tackle, not the DE.

ALSO on some plays it is a called give or keep and the play is blocked optimized for that call.

Here is some info that may help you understand it better, while we may not run it exactly like these guys, it gives you something to start with:

Click to expand...

Like you said, when people understand this, they'll undertand why it is important that our QB be a running threat.

The thing that is so dangerous about our offense as well is we have three guys at WR that will all play on Sundays. So if teams try to creep that safety up (like we talked about in the other thread) they will get burned and burned bad over the top by guys like Kenny Bell.

 
zoogies said:
I'm maybe halfway through this video, but it seems that all of these plays are still a QB read -- the difference lying in how the blocking is done. I don't know why there's a difference in blocking though: what does the 'sweep read' offer that the one blocking doesn't? Is it just more optimized for the RB to run outside while making it less optimal for the QB to pull it down and keep it?
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I agree. I haven't watched the video yet but I think something is getting lost in the semantics. jmfb even said in the OP that the QB is making a read. So, to me, the are all zone read-type play - one defender is left unblocked and the QB is giving or keeping based on what that defender does. Sweep Read, Power Read and Jet read would seem to me to be more how the play is blocked. Just like you would have an inside isolation or an outside isolation play back in the day.

 
Mavric said:
zoogies said:
I'm maybe halfway through this video, but it seems that all of these plays are still a QB read -- the difference lying in how the blocking is done. I don't know why there's a difference in blocking though: what does the 'sweep read' offer that the one blocking doesn't? Is it just more optimized for the RB to run outside while making it less optimal for the QB to pull it down and keep it?
Click to expand...
I agree. I haven't watched the video yet but I think something is getting lost in the semantics. jmfb even said in the OP that the QB is making a read. So, to me, the are all zone read-type play - one defender is left unblocked and the QB is giving or keeping based on what that defender does. Sweep Read, Power Read and Jet read would seem to me to be more how the play is blocked. Just like you would have an inside isolation or an outside isolation play back in the day.
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When the OL pull, your number one option is to give to the RB when they aren't pulling it is more optimal for a true "read" by the QB. I might be all wrong, but the pulling OL (that we use a lot) are absolutely the kicker there.

 
knapplc said:
I see what you're saying here jmfb (and thanks muchly for this post and the other about the 10 personnel package), but I don't understand what changed in the Zone "Read" game from Taylor's freshman year to this year. We annihilated Kansas State with the Zone Read, whether they were reading the DE or the DT, and both Helu and Martinez had big games. Happy Birthday, Coach Snyder!
default_biggrin.png


Unless I was imagining things, Taylor seemed to be making an actual read in that game, and doing it quite well. He kept the ball in the RB's gut until the read defender committed and made the correct call, and either he or the RB took off.

That's the last time I can think of where I thought Taylor was being allowed to make an actual read, instead of having pre-planned keeps/gives. And that makes no sense to me.

I grasp the idea of blocking a certain way for a certain play, but whatever the reason Beck's doing the "read" package in a predetermined way, it's not nearly as effective today as it was when there was more of a true read.

Is this just Beck being Beck? Or did Taylor suddenly get dumber at making that read?
Click to expand...
That isnt what I said

I didnt see the DT read in practice until his Soph year and have only seen it a couple of times in games since then, BEck talked about it at his clinic

They have true reads, TM often times gets them wrong. One of my guys is friends with Joe Ganz, Ganz said as a Frosh and Soph, he was getting about 1/2 his reads correct

But when he did, watch out, huge play.

Yes against KSU he was about perfect, I was there- fun game

They have true reads AND they have designed gives/keeps. On the designated plays, Maybe they just got tired of the wrong reads? Or fumbles?

In any event on any of those sweep read, power read and zone read or even the designated plays, the QB has to be a legit run threat

If he isnt the offense doesnt go

 
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zoogies said:
I'm maybe halfway through this video, but it seems that all of these plays are still a QB read -- the difference lying in how the blocking is done. I don't know why there's a difference in blocking though: what does the 'sweep read' offer that the one blocking doesn't? Is it just more optimized for the RB to run outside while making it less optimal for the QB to pull it down and keep it?

I can't remember if we were letting Taylor making reads in his freshman year. For me, I can't tell. I remember people saying that they were mostly designed runs/gives..and that we tore up KSU pretty bad because their second level demonstrated some abominably bad angles throughout the game.

With our offense currently under Taylor, four years later, do we run these mesh point plays more or less? My impression has been it's less, and I have no idea if Taylor is being asked to make the reads or not.
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For starters, you have a pulling guard and another blocker at the Point of Attack-

You are still reading at least 1 unblocked defender

BUT it can also be predetermined, when that happens you optimize the blocking for whoever is getting the ball- you could formation something much different for a QB keep

There are also formation advantages like the Sweep Read that Cross got the Safety on

Watch the trips to the sweep side, it was a great play the only problem is #11 the Frosh TE took a bad angle and whiffed on his block

One of the other receivers ran his defender off, the other had a great stalk block on his

 
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We use TMart more like we use a play action fake with a lot of these plays it seems. Teams HAVE to respect his legs so that keeps them honest and allows for our pulling guards and center to get out and make their blocks. But Taylor has no intention of actually keeping the football.

 
There's something in our blocking scheme or alignment that tips people off when it's a designed give to the RB, though, because many, many times Taylor has given the ball and nobody, at any time, has been heading for him.

 
EZ-E said:
We use TMart more like we use a play action fake with a lot of these plays it seems. Teams HAVE to respect his legs so that keeps them honest and allows for our pulling guards and center to get out and make their blocks. But Taylor has no intention of actually keeping the football.
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Correct, but now they dont- he wont or cant run

Thats why we need a 100% healthy QB running this offense

Thats also why you probably dont see RKIII leading this offense- we cant just run toss sweeps and straight zone plays every running snap

 
knapplc said:
There's something in our blocking scheme or alignment that tips people off when it's a designed give to the RB, though, because many, many times Taylor has given the ball and nobody, at any time, has been heading for him.
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Again- was it a bad read OR was it predetermined

I have it from a beyond great source at least back in 2011 his reads were right about 1/2 the time

Hard to tell unless you watch the film and Im not a big film watcher

But if you go trips to one side and you run sweep read to that side, Im guessing its optimized for the give a lot of times

BUT if you have a good enough fake, at least you are holding the unblocked defender- AND maybe get a half step from another

 
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