TA Needs to Help OLine by Being In The Pocket

[Mavric]

Quite a bit has been made of the OLine's sub-par play the last couple games, and rightfully so. But I think TA can help them out some by being "in the pocket" a little better. That is, I think some of the issues are caused by TA tacking a pretty deep drop - especially when already starting out in the pistol or shotgun - that the tackles simply don't have a chance against a speed rusher on the outside.

On the deep throw to Bell on our second possession, he barely dropped from where he got the snap. Even though Sterup isn't in great posiion, he is able to keep pushing the rusher deeper and would have been able to force him around TA had he needed more time to throw.

On the next possession, he drops deeper. Not terrible but there is a nice pocket there if he's 5-6 yards deep instead of 8. Instead, he's a little rushed and throws behind Bell and is almost intercepted on the tip. Had he stepped up and bought some time, he might have made a better throw or had a lot of room to run.

Late in the first half, TA takes a pretty deep drop on the play that ended up being a long catch-and-run by DPE. This time, he did step up quickly before throwing and it was enough that Sterup could push the rusher by and TA had room to step into his throw and deliver a strike.

On the next play, he again takes a near-10-yard drop but has just enough time to step back up into the pocket, buy some time and find a receiver. If he's standing at six yards, he has a lot of time.

Again, I'm not saying the OLine can't or doesn't need to be better. But I think part of the problem is defenses have figured out that the best way to get pressure is to line up wide and fly around the end, expecting TA to drop deep enough where they can get to him.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Excellent points Mav. Something you dont really notice live. Heck, I never picked up on this even rewatching the games. Guess I'm focusing too much on line play itself. But it's true. Tommy needs to do a better job of stepping up and creating better angles for the pass blocking. I think his drops are good, but there has to be step up as well. The 2nd and 4th photos were perfect opportunities for him to step up in a pocket and really deliver a good ball instead of feeling a little heat. These are the same issues we had with Martinez. He did the Oline no favors with his pocket presence and movement. You have to help the guys out by properly moving around and creating the right angles. Now it's apparent Tommy is having the same issues.

 

[FrankWheeler]

Good points, I think the line played a pretty decent game against Northwestern. If Tommy hits on 2-3 more passes in the first half and Alonzo Moore lines up correctly there wouldn't be much talk about needing to make changes on the line. For the most part Tommy was kept off of the ground, I can really only think of 2 times he was knocked down on pass attempts.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But, it appears that one example you show, you say he is too deep at 8 yards. Another one where you say he did a good job, he is at 8 yards.

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

Does anyone think he has to take such deep drops at times cause he has trouble seeing over his linemen? Or that maybe it's a timing thing between his drop time and the time it takes to run certain routes? Just spitballing here. I honestly have no idea, having little to nothing to add.

 

[GSG]

I think the depth of this drops are fine, I just think he needs to step into the pocket sooner

 

[kchusker_chris]

can't connect on a short pass - so make them longer

 

[Mavric]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But, it appears that one example you show, you say he is too deep at 8 yards. Another one where you say he did a good job, he is at 8 yards.

There's not necessarily a perfect number that works for every play. But in every example, he had room to be closer to the line.

I didn't say he did a good job by being at 8 yards. He was deeper and did a good job to step up into the pocket to buy time.

 

[lo country]

It's all about pocket presence. Moving in and out of the pocket to buy the extra second or two to make your reads, allow the recover to get open or turn scramble.

Good stuff Mavric, IMO. It again shows areas that need improvement like looking off the DB's or not locking in on a receiver. Easy fixes IMO. I have no idea why we haven't seen these improvements yet. Simple things like that could be 1-2 more wins/year. Especially against solid D's.

Anyway to post stills from the MSU game? I would be interested if there was even a pocket to set up in.

 

[74Hunter]

It's all about pocket presence. Moving in and out of the pocket to buy the extra second or two to make your reads, allow the recover to get open or turn scramble.

Good stuff Mavric, IMO. It again shows areas that need improvement like looking off the DB's or not locking in on a receiver. Easy fixes IMO. I have no idea why we haven't seen these improvements yet. Simple things like that could be 1-2 more wins/year. Especially against solid D's.

Anyway to post stills from the MSU game? I would be interested if there was even a pocket to set up in.

Agreed. Even though we've heard some good things about him, his pocket presence isn't very good.

 

[Kernal]

Isn't the depth of the drop determined by the playcall and timing with the routes? I've always understood it to be that there are 3, 5, and 7 step drops depending on the how long you want the routes to develop. Maybe I'm wrong.

One thing I noticed in the NW game was that most of the time we're throwing the O-line is still lined up as though it will or could be a run play- which is pretty much straight down the line of scrimmage. But I noticed later in the game on an obvious passing third down (don't remember which) that the O-line was lined up in more of an inverted "V" to better pass block. The difference, of course, is that the tackles are already a step deeper. I'll see if I can find and screencap the difference

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But, it appears that one example you show, you say he is too deep at 8 yards. Another one where you say he did a good job, he is at 8 yards.

There's not necessarily a perfect number that works for every play. But in every example, he had room to be closer to the line.

I didn't say he did a good job by being at 8 yards. He was deeper and did a good job to step up into the pocket to buy time.

As others have said, it partly depends on the play that is called.

In general, I would think if he starts in the shotgun position, he is coached to take certain steps for movement to get ready to throw the ball. I never have paid attention to how many steps that is back.

The pictures could also be influenced by:

a) Did the O lineman do a better job of blocking the pass rusher farther back?

b) Did the pass rusher do a poor job of taking a good line to the QB?

c) Just before the picture, did TA move one way or the other that makes it harder for the O lineman?

d) etc....

Without knowing the exact plays that were called and what he is supposed to exactly do and be doing at the time of the picture, it's hard to judge if he did it correctly or not.

But, I'm confused by your conclusion that one is an example of him taking to deep of a drop and one is an example of doing it right when they both have the same depth from the LOS.

 

[Kernal]

Ok, here's an example of what I mentioned earlier. On this 2nd and 14 play, see how the O-line is lined up- they are lined up in more of a wedge so that they can get back and pass block and create a pocket for the QB.



On this play, 1st and 10, NU is going to pass but see how the O-line is lined up? They're not tipping their hand that they will pass. The downside is that it's much harder for the tackles to get back and block on the edge if they need to.

 

[blackshirt98]

Yall just over analyze dis shiggidy. Here lets make it simple,

Line can't block cuz sterup look high on colorado state flower, Pelini at center, yeah, thanks uncle bo, Armstrong coach by Joe Ganz, ain't teach him shiggidy bout pass mechanic, and he panic to fast.

He da fastest qb who get sacked mo den anybody I see.

There u go analyzation thanks to me, out

 

[Mavric]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But, it appears that one example you show, you say he is too deep at 8 yards. Another one where you say he did a good job, he is at 8 yards.

There's not necessarily a perfect number that works for every play. But in every example, he had room to be closer to the line.

I didn't say he did a good job by being at 8 yards. He was deeper and did a good job to step up into the pocket to buy time.

As others have said, it partly depends on the play that is called.

In general, I would think if he starts in the shotgun position, he is coached to take certain steps for movement to get ready to throw the ball. I never have paid attention to how many steps that is back.

The pictures could also be influenced by:

a) Did the O lineman do a better job of blocking the pass rusher farther back?

b) Did the pass rusher do a poor job of taking a good line to the QB?

c) Just before the picture, did TA move one way or the other that makes it harder for the O lineman?

d) etc....

Without knowing the exact plays that were called and what he is supposed to exactly do and be doing at the time of the picture, it's hard to judge if he did it correctly or not.

But, I'm confused by your conclusion that one is an example of him taking to deep of a drop and one is an example of doing it right when they both have the same depth from the LOS.

I mean ... I've watched the plays several time and and explaining what I saw. I didn't just grab random screen shots. If you'd like to watch the plays and give your own analysis, feel free.

I've explained the answer to your last question already so I'm assuming you're not reading it.