TM to NY Ceremony: My bet with my pops

[kchusker_chris]

You can throw Devin Gardner on that list too.

ah - yeah I'd forgotten about him. i'm impressed w/ his play. glad we got the backup we did.

 

[knapplc]

It remains to be seen if Gardner will even be a QB next year. Michigan dearly wants to move to a pro-style offense. Gardner isn't their man in that style. He may be a wideout this time next season.

 

[beanman]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

Nope.

 

[QMany]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

Nope.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone as straight-line fast on a football field as Taylor Martinez in 2010 before he got dinged up. Being 2nd row for the KSU massacre, I will never forget.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

You also need to note that saying Crouch couldnt throw is a bit of a stretch. Martinez has very talented receivers in a system that allows his passing skills to probably look better than they are. Crouch could throw, but name one receiver he had in his four years that would be seeing time in our system today with the depth we have out there now, TE's included. Not to mention our lineman then were not built to do the things we ask out of ours today. It's just two completely different situations.

Bottom line, IMO, both players were tremendously gifted talents and carry/carried their respectable teams, in their particulars systems, in their particular eras. I wouldnt expect Crouch to do much in our system today, as well as not expecting much from Taylor in that system 11-14 years ago. It's just kind of a difficult comparison in my mind.

 

[beanman]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

You also need to note that saying Crouch couldnt throw is a bit of a stretch. Martinez has very talented receivers in a system that allows his passing skills to probably look better than they are. Crouch could throw, but name one receiver he had in his four years that would be seeing time in our system today with the depth we have out there now, TE's included. Not to mention our lineman then were not built to do the things we ask out of ours today. It's just two completely different situations.

Bottom line, IMO, both players were tremendously gifted talents and carry/carried their respectable teams, in their particulars systems, in their particular eras. I wouldnt expect Crouch to do much in our system today, as well as not expecting much from Taylor in that system 11-14 years ago. It's just kind of a difficult comparison in my mind.

That it is. Like you said, Crouch didn't have the receivers Martinez has. Don't get me wrong, they weren't scrubs by any means, but they weren't fast. They ran good routes and had good hands, but benefited from play action most of the time to get open. TMart wouldn't have been that good in that offense running the traditional option. Crouch could likely run either but his weakness was his passing. Having played in Beck's system he certainly had the skill-set to improve(arm strength, footwork, technique) but we'll never know what he could have accomplished in this type of system. Keep in mind as well that Crouch had shoulder surgery(twice on his throwing shoulder) and was held out of Spring football in 2 straight years.

 

[beanman]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

Nope.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone as straight-line fast on a football field as Taylor Martinez in 2010 before he got dinged up. Being 2nd row for the KSU massacre, I will never forget.

Exactly my point. Watch Crouch's youtube videos if you want to see explosive. Running fast in a straight line after you've reached peak speed isn't the same as being explosive my friend. Explosive implies burst. Would TMart beat Crouch in a 100 yard footrace? Probably so. But if you want the ultimate combination in speed, vision, shiftiness and physicality in a running QB, Crouch is the man. Better than Frasier, better than Gill, better than Frost. Did the others have intangibles or better ability to read a defense and audible or just take command of a game, probably so. Frazier was the master at getting us in the right play and was one of the most competitive guys that ever walked out onto the field. TMart is better suited for the system we run now than Crouch was, but you cannot say for sure what Crouch could have done had he been focused more on the passing game and not had surgeries on his throwing shoulder.

 

[QMany]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

Nope.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone as straight-line fast on a football field as Taylor Martinez in 2010 before he got dinged up. Being 2nd row for the KSU massacre, I will never forget.

Exactly my point. Watch Crouch's youtube videos if you want to see explosive. Running fast in a straight line after you've reached peak speed isn't the same as being explosive my friend. Explosive implies burst. Would TMart beat Crouch in a 100 yard footrace? Probably so. But if you want the ultimate combination in speed, vision, shiftiness and physicality in a running QB, Crouch is the man. Better than Frasier, better than Gill, better than Frost. Did the others have intangibles or better ability to read a defense and audible or just take command of a game, probably so. Frazier was the master at getting us in the right play and was one of the most competitive guys that ever walked out onto the field. TMart is better suited for the system we run now than Crouch was, but you cannot say for sure what Crouch could have done had he been focused more on the passing game and not had surgeries on his throwing shoulder.

I'll add, I've never seen anyone get to top speed like Taylor can. In that regard, he is more explosive. I've seen plenty of Crouch games live and YouTube videos. As far as shiftiness and physicality, Crouch for sure. He reminds me of Braxton, but tougher. It just depends on how you define it. Explode through a hole and get to top speed in 2-3 steps? Martinez. Explode through a defender and juke another one? Crouch.

 

[huskers_packers]

i still don't see how anyone has him higher then a 2 or 3... the guy is a turnover machine. Winning or losing, turnovers mean not heisman material. We go undefeated, blow out every team we play, and martinez doesn't turn the ball over he has a shot. Same situation, but taylor with the multiple picks that HE WILL THROW, and the fumbles that HE WILL FUMBLE, maybe Abdullah gets the nod.

 

[Landlord]

People keep focusing on whether Crouch or Taylor is superior...don't forget that Crouch was like the weakest Heisman trophy winner of the last 20 years. They had to give it to somebody.

 

[QMany]

People keep focusing on whether Crouch or Taylor is superior...don't forget that Crouch was like the weakest Heisman trophy winner of the last 20 years. They had to give it to somebody.

I didn't remember that he only received 28% of the votes. Wow.

I wonder how it will turn out this year. I have no idea who will win or who will be selected #1 in the Draft by the Chiefs.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Half of the time Eric Crouch could hit a wide-open receiver.

At his worst, running a much more advanced passing attack that includes checking down receivers and crossing patterns, Taylor Martinez is a better passer than Eric Crouch.

But as you note, Martinez has gotten better at the same time his receivers have improved.

 

[Blackshirts007]

We have Bell, Turner, Enunwa, Allen back from injury, and Westerkamp off of RS all coming back next year. With the rushing attack of Taylor and Ameer, he will get plenty of opportunities to rack up yards upon yards.

 

[beanman]

Martinez over Crouch anyday. Martinez is playing with less, and doing as much, if not more. Crouch was good with his legs, and couldn't pass. Martinez doesn't need to be that good with his legs, because he is capable of throwing now. His Redshirt Freshman year, he was way more explosive than Crouch.

Nope.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone as straight-line fast on a football field as Taylor Martinez in 2010 before he got dinged up. Being 2nd row for the KSU massacre, I will never forget.

Exactly my point. Watch Crouch's youtube videos if you want to see explosive. Running fast in a straight line after you've reached peak speed isn't the same as being explosive my friend. Explosive implies burst. Would TMart beat Crouch in a 100 yard footrace? Probably so. But if you want the ultimate combination in speed, vision, shiftiness and physicality in a running QB, Crouch is the man. Better than Frasier, better than Gill, better than Frost. Did the others have intangibles or better ability to read a defense and audible or just take command of a game, probably so. Frazier was the master at getting us in the right play and was one of the most competitive guys that ever walked out onto the field. TMart is better suited for the system we run now than Crouch was, but you cannot say for sure what Crouch could have done had he been focused more on the passing game and not had surgeries on his throwing shoulder.

I'll add, I've never seen anyone get to top speed like Taylor can. In that regard, he is more explosive. I've seen plenty of Crouch games live and YouTube videos. As far as shiftiness and physicality, Crouch for sure. He reminds me of Braxton, but tougher. It just depends on how you define it. Explode through a hole and get to top speed in 2-3 steps? Martinez. Explode through a defender and juke another one? Crouch.

I don't necessarily agree with with you but we're closer to being on the same page now. It would have been interesting to have seen an offense like we run now with Crouch or Frazier running it. Imagine LP running the ball in our current offense. Would be pretty cool to see.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

People keep focusing on whether Crouch or Taylor is superior...don't forget that Crouch was like the weakest Heisman trophy winner of the last 20 years. They had to give it to somebody.

Very true. In '01, there wasn't really anyone Heisman worthy, besides maybe Dantzler or Simms IMO. Crouch deserved it by far, even in todays society, if he performed that way, rushing 1115 yards for 18 TDs, and throwing for 1510 and 7 TD's, he would be in for the talk and a finalist. I don't think he would have won with throwing 10 INT's.