Tim Beck

[NebraskaHarry]

To think Martinez is NOT one of the best is well stupid.

 

[NebraskaHarry]

Can you hold that against a guy? I say no, especially when we consider Frazier, and Crouch to be our two best QB's ever, and they both started 4 years....

No no not at all, you can't hold that against him, it's just viewing stats within context. I mean Marlon Lucky finished 4th in all-purpose yards in his career here, and he was a pretty good player, but does that make him one of the best backs to come through here? I don't think so; he got more opportunity to put up numbers than most of his competition.

Finishing 4th and 1st (which Martinez will in almost every QB category) are not the same.

 

[Army_Allen]

Did someone just compare Favre to Martinez and call them similar....ohhhh golly gee. Here is to Martinez having a phenomenal NFL QB career

I wasn't comparing athleticism or anything like that. Just the gunslinger mentality they both have. Their intangibles are similar. Both have started even when injured, both always put their all into all four quarters. Stuff like that is why I'm reminded so much of Favre when I see Taylor. And I'm usually on your side on most things Hedley, but you're wrong on this one. Taylor deserves our support win/lose/draw.

He has my full support. He just isn't one of the best QBs we have had at NU

Agree to disagree then I suppose. I won't argue the same thing for hours like most here.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Name me 5 clear cut, better QB's that Nebraska has had?

Tagge

Humm

Ferragamo

Gill

S. Taylor

Frazier

Berringer

Frost

Crouch

Next group down

Lord

Ganz

Z. Taylor

Quinn

McCant

I would put Taylor in with the 2nd group

With all due respect, what did Berringer, Humm, and Ferragamo do that was so impressive as compared to guys like Jamall Lord, Joe Ganz, and Zach Taylor. Give Jamal Lord the o-line and backs and defense that Frazier and Crouch had, and he would be known as the best ever. Same goes for Taylor and Ganz.

Brook Berringer was a great human being. A tremendous leader and did his job nearly perfectly. But as a brutally honest assessment, he did nothing as a qb to deserve to be mentioned as an all-time great. One of our most remembers players? Yes. Straight up as a quarterback? I would put Lord ahead of him. Lord did a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less. Berringer managed games and kept mistakes down and the team leaned on Lawrence Phillips, the Oline and the blackshirts.

Now imagine if Martinez could manage a game and keep mistakes down. I was just grouping guys off the top of my head. Not putting them in any sort of order.

I agree with you that Lord was not as bad as many feel he was. In terms of a qb I would gladly take those guys over Martinez. That is just my opinion based on what I have seen. Martinez was such a great leader he wore jeans and a flannel to the award banquet. Rex wore a tie. Martinez isn't the leader of our team.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Can you hold that against a guy? I say no, especially when we consider Frazier, and Crouch to be our two best QB's ever, and they both started 4 years....

No no not at all, you can't hold that against him, it's just viewing stats within context. I mean Marlon Lucky finished 4th in all-purpose yards in his career here, and he was a pretty good player, but does that make him one of the best backs to come through here? I don't think so; he got more opportunity to put up numbers than most of his competition.

Lucky was undervauled by our fanbase, in my opinion.... but your point is taken....

 

[Count 'Bility]

Martinez crumbling under pressure? That is a silly concept. In fact, he has shown way more poise under pressure than Gill, Frazier, Frost, or Crouch ever did. They rarely, to ever at all, had to.

Wow, that's a hell of a statement. Not sure if I can agree with that.

Well, I'm just looking at it from a factual standpoint. Not many can challenge me on the details of the careers of any of these quarterbacks outside of Turner Gill-and Ive read enough about that era to know what happened. How many times did Gill have to lead a team back late in the game. Frazier? Frazier did it once that we know of. So did Frost. My point is that Martinez had to show the poise and calm for late game heroics-I mean down double digits with only minutes left- more this season than these guys all ever had to combined. Those guys were great, but they had the convenience of playing from ahead 97% of the time.

 

[Count 'Bility]

You honestly believe that Martinez IS NOT one of the best QB's to ever play at Nebraska? I would like to hear you defend that.... Also, isn't longevity a quality in most great QB's.

Most college QBs don't have the luxury of starting more or less four full seasons because they wait around behind other guys. Hedley's point isn't about the 'longevity' being good or bad, but merely that Taylor is hitting the record books in part due to having a lot more games started than most of the guys whose career numbers he is surpassing.

Can you hold that against a guy? I say no, especially when we consider Frazier, and Crouch to be our two best QB's ever, and they both started 4 years....

Except Crouch wasn't the starting qb in 98 and wasn't the starter until Texas.

Crouch wasnt the starting qb in '99 either. Not for the first few games.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Name me 5 clear cut, better QB's that Nebraska has had?

Tagge

Humm

Ferragamo

Gill

S. Taylor

Frazier

Berringer

Frost

Crouch

Next group down

Lord

Ganz

Z. Taylor

Quinn

McCant

I would put Taylor in with the 2nd group

With all due respect, what did Berringer, Humm, and Ferragamo do that was so impressive as compared to guys like Jamall Lord, Joe Ganz, and Zach Taylor. Give Jamal Lord the o-line and backs and defense that Frazier and Crouch had, and he would be known as the best ever. Same goes for Taylor and Ganz.

Brook Berringer was a great human being. A tremendous leader and did his job nearly perfectly. But as a brutally honest assessment, he did nothing as a qb to deserve to be mentioned as an all-time great. One of our most remembers players? Yes. Straight up as a quarterback? I would put Lord ahead of him. Lord did a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less. Berringer managed games and kept mistakes down and the team leaned on Lawrence Phillips, the Oline and the blackshirts.

Now imagine with Martinez could manage a game and keep mistakes down. I was just grouping guys off the top of my head. Not putting them in any sort of order.

I agree with you that Lord was not as bad as many feel he was. In terms of a qb I would gladly take those guys over Martinez. That is just my opinion based on what I have seen. Martinez was such a great leader he wore jeans and a flannel to the award banquet. Rex wore a tie. Martinez isn't the leader of our team.

You've never seen nearly half of the guys you listed play....

 

[husker_99]

Name me 5 clear cut, better QB's that Nebraska has had?

Tagge

Humm

Ferragamo

Gill

S. Taylor

Frazier

Berringer

Frost

Crouch

Next group down

Lord

Ganz

Z. Taylor

Quinn

McCant

I would put Taylor in with the 2nd group

With all due respect, what did Berringer, Humm, and Ferragamo do that was so impressive as compared to guys like Jamall Lord, Joe Ganz, and Zach Taylor. Give Jamal Lord the o-line and backs and defense that Frazier and Crouch had, and he would be known as the best ever. Same goes for Taylor and Ganz.

Brook Berringer was a great human being. A tremendous leader and did his job nearly perfectly. But as a brutally honest assessment, he did nothing as a qb to deserve to be mentioned as an all-time great. One of our most remembers players? Yes. Straight up as a quarterback? I would put Lord ahead of him. Lord did a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less. Berringer managed games and kept mistakes down and the team leaned on Lawrence Phillips, the Oline and the blackshirts.

Sorry but Brook Berringer would be a starting qb somewhere else. He was that good. Back up qb's don't lead teams to undefeated seasons cause mostly they don't have the experience or not ready. Now when we had our 3rd string qb in then we leaned on our running game more.

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Name me 5 clear cut, better QB's that Nebraska has had?

Tagge

Humm

Ferragamo

Gill

S. Taylor

Frazier

Berringer

Frost

Crouch

Next group down

Lord

Ganz

Z. Taylor

Quinn

McCant

I would put Taylor in with the 2nd group

With all due respect, what did Berringer, Humm, and Ferragamo do that was so impressive as compared to guys like Jamall Lord, Joe Ganz, and Zach Taylor. Give Jamal Lord the o-line and backs and defense that Frazier and Crouch had, and he would be known as the best ever. Same goes for Taylor and Ganz.

Brook Berringer was a great human being. A tremendous leader and did his job nearly perfectly. But as a brutally honest assessment, he did nothing as a qb to deserve to be mentioned as an all-time great. One of our most remembers players? Yes. Straight up as a quarterback? I would put Lord ahead of him. Lord did a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less. Berringer managed games and kept mistakes down and the team leaned on Lawrence Phillips, the Oline and the blackshirts.

Now imagine with Martinez could manage a game and keep mistakes down. I was just grouping guys off the top of my head. Not putting them in any sort of order.

I agree with you that Lord was not as bad as many feel he was. In terms of a qb I would gladly take those guys over Martinez. That is just my opinion based on what I have seen. Martinez was such a great leader he wore jeans and a flannel to the award banquet. Rex wore a tie. Martinez isn't the leader of our team.

You've never seen nearly half of the guys you listed play....

Seen and heard, does that help you understand?

 

[husker_99]

You honestly believe that Martinez IS NOT one of the best QB's to ever play at Nebraska? I would like to hear you defend that.... Also, isn't longevity a quality in most great QB's.

Most college QBs don't have the luxury of starting more or less four full seasons because they wait around behind other guys. Hedley's point isn't about the 'longevity' being good or bad, but merely that Taylor is hitting the record books in part due to having a lot more games started than most of the guys whose career numbers he is surpassing.

Can you hold that against a guy? I say no, especially when we consider Frazier, and Crouch to be our two best QB's ever, and they both started 4 years....

Except Crouch wasn't the starting qb in 98 and wasn't the starter until Texas.

Crouch wasnt the starting qb in '99 either. Not for the first few games.

point was that Crouch didn't start for 4 years like Martinez or Frazier.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Understand what? Has a valid point been made?

 

[Hedley Lamarr]

Understand what? Has a valid point been made?

Martinez isn't a top 5 qb in NU history. Plain and simple.

 

[HuskerShark]

point was that Crouch didn't start for 4 years like Martinez or Frazier.

Neither did TD Tommie.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Understand what? Has a valid point been made?

Martinez isn't a top 5 qb in NU history. Plain and simple.

I never said he was top 5. I just said he was one of our best, and he is.... There is no arguing that. (but you'll try)....