Battle of the Hall-of-Famers: Mike Rozier vs. Ron Dayne

[Guy Chamberlin]

I'll go with Rozier myself.

But since it's May and I've been huffing butane, I'll go ahead and point out that some of the arguments for Rozier don't necessarily work in his favor.

Rozier had to share an offense with other big game threats, true. I suppose that took away some yards from his stats, but a versatile run-first offense also worked in his favor. The yards Gill rushed for are the yards other quarterbacks simply passed for. Being on a great team like the early 80s Huskers adds to his luster, but great teams -- and great offensive lines -- also make good players greater. It makes you think about the great player on a lesser team who is often asked to carry the entire team on his shoulders. That may shave off a few yards-per-carry (see Rex Burkhead), but it's a valid way to consider greatness. The Huskers still crushed it with Roger Craig before him, and Doug Dubose averaged 6.7 yards a carry the year after Rozier. Rozier was the best Nebraska running back in a system that rewarded running backs.

The USFL lured a lot of high-profile players with big bucks, hoping to legitimize the league. They all ended up in the NFL, where Rozier had a modest career with the Oilers, slightly better statistically than Dayne's. Pro careers don't do much to settle this argument.

This is the long way of saying I had too much time to kill today.

 

[NUance]

I am not getting why it is so hard to understand what AllNRed is saying.

Dayne had a better college career than Rozier.

Even in this thread someone said Phillips was Nebraska's best back, but did he have a better college career than Rozier? Of course not.

If Dayne had shown up at Wisconsin his sophomore year, and Roger Craig was already the starting I-Back there, would we even be having this conversation? I think not.

 

[knapplc]

I am not getting why it is so hard to understand what AllNRed is saying.

Dayne had a better college career than Rozier.

Defining a "college career" is the difference in the argument. There's no single definition, and that's where we vary. You cannot simply define a "college career" based on total yards and/or touchdowns - as we've already discussed, that would mean Taylor Martinez has already had a better "college career" than Tommie Frazier, and that's ludicrous.

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

I am not getting why it is so hard to understand what AllNRed is saying.

Dayne had a better college career than Rozier.

Defining a "college career" is the difference in the argument. There's no single definition, and that's where we vary. You cannot simply define a "college career" based on total yards and/or touchdowns - as we've already discussed, that would mean Taylor Martinez has already had a better "college career" than Tommie Frazier, and that's ludicrous.

Statistically yes, Martinez has had a better career. QBs are judged more by wins, losses, championships and leadership. That is what sets Frazier above.

Running backs like Dayne and Rozier are easier to compare though. Their careers are almost always based on stats. And neither led a team to a National Title.

 

[knapplc]

Running backs like Dayne and Rozier are easier to compare though. Their careers are almost always based on stats.

This is an arbitrary definition. Conveniently, it supports a stance you've taken. Further, the stats don't clearly point to Dayne as having the better career. While he had more total yards, Rozier had a higher yard per carry average. Those stats can be twisted just about any way you like.

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

Running backs like Dayne and Rozier are easier to compare though. Their careers are almost always based on stats.

This is an arbitrary definition. Conveniently, it supports a stance you've taken. Further, the stats don't clearly point to Dayne as having the better career. While he had more total yards, Rozier had a higher yard per carry average. Those stats can be twisted just about any way you like.

When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats?

Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career?

 

[knapplc]

When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats?

Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career?

Ron Dayne has the most yards rushing of any D1A college running back, ever. So you're making the claim that he had the best career of any college running back to play D1A, ever? Because of yards?

 

[AllNRed]

So let me get this straight........Mike Rozier's career production was limited because Osborne happen to put other weapons around him but I should still consider it better than Ron Dayne's because Alvarez didn't do the same. Forget the fact that Dayne ran for more yards and TDs because Rozier would have done the same IF he had an extra year and less talent around him............thanks guys. I'd of never been able to see the light without you......

Barry Sanders only had 3,797 yards rushing in college. Therefore, Ron Dayne is better. See how stupid this sounds?

Sounds even dumber when that wasn't what I was saying. Comprehension seems not as important to some as it is to me.

 

[AllNRed]

Saying Dayne is better than Rozier because he had more yards is like saying Brett Favre is better than Joe Montana, because he threw for more yards than Montana in his career. Which QB would you rather have leading your team in the Super Bowl? Enough said.

I've seen both of these running backs play, and Ron Dayne is no Mike Rozier. That guy wasn't even in the same class as Rozier. People were more enamored with Dayne as a consequence of him being a toad that still had some speed rather than anything else.

Yet another example of comprehension not really being the strong point in a response.

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats?

Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career?

Ron Dayne has the most yards rushing of any D1A college running back, ever. So you're making the claim that he had the best career of any college running back to play D1A, ever? Because of yards?

You can throw in a combination of yards and TDs if you'd like. And we are comparing the college careers of Dayne and Rozier.

I had the opportunity to watch both play. What if you hadn't seen either play? Who had the better career?

 

[knapplc]

When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats?

Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career?

Ron Dayne has the most yards rushing of any D1A college running back, ever. So you're making the claim that he had the best career of any college running back to play D1A, ever? Because of yards?

You can throw in a combination of yards and TDs if you'd like. And we are comparing the college careers of Dayne and Rozier.

I had the opportunity to watch both play. What if you hadn't seen either play? Who had the better career?

Combining yards and touchdowns still doesn't help the argument that, based on those two stats alone, Ron Dayne had the best career of any D1A running back, ever. Just doesn't hold water.

And yes, I had the benefit of watching both play. Saw many of Rozier's games and listened to Lyell Bremser call the rest. Saw a ton of Dayne's games and saw his highlights on ESPN. And without hesitation I'll still say Rozier 1) was a better running back and 2) had a better career.

 

[AllNRed]

Its obviously impossible to convince Husker fans on the Huskerboard that anyone is better than Rozier so I'm not even going to try. That being said those who are saying Dayne was nothing special must not have been paying attention. That or your Husker glasses are 20 inches thick. There has NEVER been a RB like Dayne and given the state of football (spread Os/increasing passing attacks/RB committees/etc.) it is very doubtful that we will ever see one like him again.

I get that people who didn't watch him on a regular basis think he's just a stat guy. That argument holds some weight until you realize just how ridiculous those stats were. Dayne missed several games his Soph year and sat out at least 10 4th quarters, probably closer to 15 but those box scores are hard to find. He would have had another 1,000 yards EASILY if he had played every game and closed out all the blowouts along the way. Remember the thing that made Dayne a Hall-of-Famer was that he was a 260 pound back who could take 30+ carries a game like it was nothing. He took games over in the 4th quarter when the opposing D was sick of facing him. Alvarez sat him for the 4th in almost every non-conference game he played as he would routinely have 200 yards at halftime. If he would have stayed in for those 4th quarters against teams that he had forced to quit (not just non-conference games either, many B1G teams were spared Dayne in the 4th as well) his numbers would have been even more staggering than they were.

He didn't start for the first four games of his Frosh year, sat out the majority of several 4th qtrs (for example vs hawaii when he had 0 carries after the 3rd quarter and still finished with 336 yards) and still finished with 2,100+ yards. AT WISCONSIN!!!!

The UW of Dayne's era is not even close to the UW of today. That was a program attempting to find itself still. we had won two Bowl games in the last 50 years before Dayne got there. This was not Nebraska with multiple CFB Hall-of-Famers. To those who point out that Rozier wasn't the only option, or even the only Hall-of-Fame option, on those teams while also pointing to his YPC as why he is better might want to double check their logic. Is it easier to gain big chunks of yards when the D has multiple threats to deal with or when you are the only threat facing 9 and 10 man fronts most of the time? Obviously the guy with an all time great at QB AND WR would have the better YPC numbers. Not to mention if you double a guys carries there is no guarantee that they will maintain that pace. Part of what made Dayne such a great player was his durability.

It's good that at least one person understands that this guy was an elite back and in a class all of his own. Another fun fact about him is that you can count on one hand how many times he fumbled as a Badger and still have a finger free. As I said in my first post, he was a beast of a player. No knock on anyone else in NU's or any other programs history, but he deserves to headline a HOF as much as anyone else.

 

[AllNRed]

I am not getting why it is so hard to understand what AllNRed is saying.

Dayne had a better college career than Rozier.

Even in this thread someone said Phillips was Nebraska's best back, but did he have a better college career than Rozier? Of course not.

It's almost like people just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Lawrence Phillips is probably my favorite husker RB even over Rozier, but Rozier obviously had a better career as a husker.

My original post was simply just a statement saying that Dayne's "college career" was better than Roziers. Which it is. If we posted their stats up and no one knew who's stats were who's, yes we would give much credit to the player with a higher ypc and 1 less year, but we would say that the others collective amount of accomplishments on the field is better. No he didn't average 7.2 ypc but last I checked 5.9 or 6.0 ypc was pretty damn good also. And he did it for 4 seasons, without having an abudance of talent around him to take some of the focus off of him while he is on the field. Someone said that if he was on the 82 Husker squad he would be 3rd string getting barely any carries......that's the most ignorant comment I've heard on any football board I've ever been apart of, thus helped me to understand that regardless of what I say, they are simply not going to hear it because Rozier is the best..... :lol:

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats?

Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career?

Ron Dayne has the most yards rushing of any D1A college running back, ever. So you're making the claim that he had the best career of any college running back to play D1A, ever? Because of yards?

You can throw in a combination of yards and TDs if you'd like. And we are comparing the college careers of Dayne and Rozier.

I had the opportunity to watch both play. What if you hadn't seen either play? Who had the better career?

Combining yards and touchdowns still doesn't help the argument that, based on those two stats alone, Ron Dayne had the best career of any D1A running back, ever. Just doesn't hold water.

And yes, I had the benefit of watching both play. Saw many of Rozier's games and listened to Lyell Bremser call the rest. Saw a ton of Dayne's games and saw his highlights on ESPN. And without hesitation I'll still say Rozier 1) was a better running back and 2) had a better career.

So what are you basing that on? YPC? What else other than how "you" feel? Take a step back and look at it as just a college football fan.

I don't take issue that Rozier was a better back. I agree, but I am also a die-hard Husker fan.

 

[knapplc]

Take a step back and look at it as just a college football fan.

Already did that. First HERE and then HERE

Dispassionately, Dayne deserves his place in the pantheon of college running backs. Rozier's place is just a bit higher.