Taylor Martinez 2013 discussion - running tougher? better decisions in the pocket?

[kchusker_chris]

What amount of playing time is significant for a backup?

I'm going to make an exception when it comes to Oklahoma's back-up. He was more of a package, get in the heavy formation from two yards out and drive it in, kind of QB. He didn't have to make all the reads, throws, decisions, etc that a non-package designed QB has to make.

Point is, while it seems wise in the long run to develop the backup QB so that when the starter does eventually leave or go down, all hope isn't lost. But it is absolutely stupid in the short run to do the same thing. The starter gives you the best chance to win, that is why he is the starter. If a team's starting, experienced QB goes down with an injury, that team is going to be hurting no matter who they are, Alabama or Tulane.

I just want to see Armstrong get enough time to keep him interested in the program. He sees the light at the end of the tunnel with Martinez leaving...but he also sees a touted freshman coming in during the fall. I'd like to see Armstrong get at least 4-5 series a game against Wyoming, Southern Miss, and S. Dakota, with 3 of them being meaningful...and not just some vanilla offense. I think we get our backup QBs in the game then run, run, and run. I'd like to see them at least get a chance to operate the offense, not just distribute the ball. If they struggle so be it, who wouldn't expect them too. Then I wouldn't mind seeing Beck create a package of 8-10 plays that are for Armstrong and we use him in a Tebow (freshman) type of role for the rest of the year. Maybe he goes into every game with a scripted series. He should be competent enough to do that, and I believe it's worth a win in 2014 to figure out a way to get him this playing time in 2013. It also gives Taylor a series to watch the defense from the sideline, which if used correctly could be valuable to him. Obviously if we are down by 3, or it's a tight game and Taylor is playing lights out this isn't something that would be utilized. But it could have it's place in the game plan if Armstrong is really all he's hyped to be.

 

[zoogs]

For the offense Callahan wanted to run, Keller was the better choice. When Keller went down and we put Ganzy in, they changed the plays and went away from a strictly pocket-passing game to more of a pass/run option for the QB.

Had they wanted a scrambling QB from the get-go then Ganz was the better choice. They wanted a West Coast pocket QB, and that was Keller. Ganzy was never a good fit for the West Coast offense.

I thought Ganz was actually a pretty good fit in our offense just because he seemed to know it so well by his last two years, and had the rapport with his teammates.

But what I think they really wanted during Callahan's entire tenure was a guy with an arm to stretch the field, something Keller could do and Ganz couldn't. Keller did better than I think he's usually remembered for, but it was only OK. Ganz was always way more fun to watch.

Keller had a big-time arm, although I suppose at that time we were a little bit lacking in deep threat receivers to really make the best use of it. And was not nearly as loved by his teammates as Ganz was.

There is so much positive buzz about Armstrong I'm hoping he pans out and turns into something. I also think he should get plenty of 'feet wet' opportunities this year. If nothing else, Taylor is heading into his senior year, and Armstrong could be next year's starter. The staff probably will be mindful of the growing pains experienced in 2010 and give Armstrong some time even if Taylor is healthy.

 

[AllNRed]

Didn't he play hurt most of his freshman year because we had no "depth" behind him?

No.

-1st it wasn't most of his freshman year. He played in 4 games after his injury, that's not most of the season

-2nd, the decision to keep him in was the decision of an inexperienced HC not the experienced OC. Martinez is Bo's guy. Watson wanted Green in.

-3rd, the 3rd player on the roster had a year of starting experience under his belt. Though Z.Lee wasn't that good, he still is able to manage the offense.

-4th, our next 3 games were against ISU/KU/aTm...none were big threats. Bo's wanted to give that "fear factor" to the opposing defenses so he stuck a QB who could barely walk on the field. Green was 4-0 as a starter at NU, which shows he had at least enough talent to manage the offense.

We haven't had depth at the QB spot in 4 years. I don't see this year being much different than a couple years ago when Brion was looked to as the next great Husker QB, or Green, or whatever other name you want to insert in there that hasn't panned out. We need to see some Armstrong this year, and we actually need to see a lot of him. Until then I'm going to assume outside of Martinez, we're screwed...because that's how it's been for pretty much Bo's entire time here in regards to the QB spot.

This is your perception, and you are welcome to having that opinion but it doesn't make it fact. If you have 4 QBs on scholarship, that is depth.......

Here's the depth of each year.

2008

-Joe Ganz - starter

-Patick Witt - back up

-Zac Lee - redshirt

-Kody Spano - redshirt

2009

-Zac Lee - Starter

-Cody Green - Back up

-LaTravis Washington - 3rd string

-Kody Spano - injured

2010

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Cody Green - back up

-Zac Lee - 3rd string

-LaTravis Washington - 4th string

-Kody Spano - injured

2011

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Brion Carnes - back up

-Ron Kellogg - 3rd string

2012

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Ron Kellogg - back up

-Tommy Armstrong - red shirt

-Bronson Marsh - 5th string

(How I see the current season going)

2013

-Taylor Martinez - starter

-Tommy Armstrong - back up

-Ron Kellogg - 3rd string

-Bronson Marsh - 4th string

-Johnny Stanton - red shirt

When you take your emotions out of a response you'll began to realize how flawed your opinion is. Now obviously there's no Heisman finalists starting in that group and no "Brook Berringers" at back up, but those were the scholarship QBs we had, which is depth. Injuries served it's role in a couple of the years also.

We need him healthy. But with Heard's exit I expect him to get 4-5 extra carries a game that he wouldn't have otherwise. With the increased tempo it's quite possible we'll be running another 8-10 plays a game, so there's another 1 or 2 Martinez runs. Scary to say, but I think we're better off as a team relying on his arm if possible.

Not really sure you logic behind this. Heard's departure was more due to Cross/Newby/Taylor being more apart of the running game. Those young guys weren't looking to go to a program that could only promise them 2-3 snaps a game. That was the overall picture painted when Heard was asked to change positions for the 3rd time in 2 seasons. And we are a better team when we have both the rushing game and the passing game click, thus giving that "multiple" attack that Bo has been preaching about since he got to Lincoln. It's the exact same approach that Beck takes with his offense. You don't rely heavily on either so that you keep the defense on it's heels.

 

[knapplc]

But what I think they really wanted during Callahan's entire tenure was a guy with an arm to stretch the field, something Keller could do and Ganz couldn't. Keller did better than I think he's usually remembered for, but it was only OK. Ganz was always way more fun to watch.
Keller had a big-time arm, although I suppose at that time we were a little bit lacking in deep threat receivers to really make the best use of it. And was not nearly as loved by his teammates as Ganz was.

That's how I remember Keller, too. He wasn't liked by the fans and he suffers for that (and for his video game lawsuit), but after watching the 2007 Spring Game and a couple of fall practices, I was comfortable with the decision to start Keller. Ganzy played WAY better after Keller's injury than he showed before the season.

 

[kchusker_chris]

....

-1st it wasn't most of his freshman year. He played in 4 games after his injury, that's not most of the season

-2nd, the decision to keep him in was the decision of an inexperienced HC not the experienced OC. Martinez is Bo's guy. Watson wanted Green in.

-3rd, the 3rd player on the roster had a year of starting experience under his belt. Though Z.Lee wasn't that good, he still is able to manage the offense.

-4th, our next 3 games were against ISU/KU/aTm...none were big threats. Bo's wanted to give that "fear factor" to the opposing defenses so he stuck a QB who could barely walk on the field. Green was 4-0 as a starter at NU, which shows he had at least enough talent to manage the offense.

- He was injurred halfway through the Missouri game....there were 6 games after that. so 6.5 games...that's a pretty good chunk of the non-gimme games...about all them.

- You know Watson wanted Green in? How so, because he had performed so well up to that point?

- Zac Lee was reportedly injured as well

- We lost 1 of those three, and barely got by ISU in OT...and Martinez/Lee bailed Green out of at least 1 if not 2 of those starts to give him the W.

....and Marsh left the program a long time ago.

 

[AllNRed]

Guys. Does anyone in the entire coutry really have "depth" at the qb position as some here are suggesting that we dont have? I mean seriously, is there anyone in the country that's going to be as good with their #2 qb after injury as they were with #1. Even '94 Nebraska wasnt as good with Berringer instead of Frazier. We're not the only team in the country that would have issues if our #1 qb goes down for an extended period of time for whatever the reason. Looking back on the 2010 season, I think it's safe to say that a hobbled Martinez gave us a better chance to win than a healthy, deer-in-the-headlights Cody Green. Martinez wouldve been serviceable as a hobbled qb had the playcalling not been so erratically incompetent.

Ummm.....no. Cody Green was more than serviceable and gave us much better chance vs aTm. Hell, Z.Lee was healthy enough to manage the offense in that game. No they weren't the play makers that Martinez was (healthy) but Martinez was no better than any QB in the nation after the injury in 2010. I can't remember which game Martinez came back in at QB replacing either Green/Lee and the defense was heard screaming (even on the TV) for a blitz because Martinez couldn't move around and his passing played defense on itself.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

No.

-1st it wasn't most of his freshman year. He played in 4 games after his injury, that's not most of the season

-2nd, the decision to keep him in was the decision of an inexperienced HC not the experienced OC. Martinez is Bo's guy. Watson wanted Green in.

-3rd, the 3rd player on the roster had a year of starting experience under his belt. Though Z.Lee wasn't that good, he still is able to manage the offense.

-4th, our next 3 games were against ISU/KU/aTm...none were big threats. Bo's wanted to give that "fear factor" to the opposing defenses so he stuck a QB who could barely walk on the field. Green was 4-0 as a starter at NU, which shows he had at least enough talent to manage the offense.

Here's the depth of each year.

2008

-Joe Ganz - starter

-Patick Witt - back up

-Zac Lee - redshirt- How did he redshirt when he played a game and graduated in 2010?

-Kody Spano - redshirt

2009

-Zac Lee - Starter

-Cody Green - Back up

-LaTravis Washington - 3rd string

-Kody Spano - injured

2010

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Cody Green - back up Couldn't hold on the ball if his life depended on it when he was given the option to prove himself.

-Zac Lee - 3rd string Injured

-LaTravis Washington - 4th string

-Kody Spano - injured

2011

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Brion Carnes - back up

-Ron Kellogg - 3rd string

2012

-Taylor Martinez - Starter

-Ron Kellogg - back up

-Brion Carnes- Couldn't understand the offense and get a grasp on reading defenses.

-Tommy Armstrong - red shirt

-Bronson Marsh - 5th string Where's 4th String?

(How I see the current season going)

2013

-Taylor Martinez - starter

-Tommy Armstrong - back up

-Ron Kellogg - 3rd string

-Bronson Marsh - 4th string Come on, I thought you followed Husker football better than this guy, HE IS GONE. UNK transfer.

-Johnny Stanton - red shirt Most Likely the case, but its pretty premature to be set that this is whats going to happen.

-Ryker Fyfe

-Tyson Broekemeier

Edited some things for you.

Simply put, the reason Martinez played injured his fresman and sophomore year, was because of the lack of depth. Just because you have a body, doesn't mean you have depth. This is common sense. This year, we have QUALITY depth, something Taylor has NEVER had behind him, except for Lee, but he was injured.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Simply put, the reason Martinez played injured his fresman and sophomore year, was because of the lack of depth. Just because you have a body, doesn't mean you have depth. This is common sense. This year, we have QUALITY depth, something Taylor has NEVER had behind him, except for Lee, but he was injured.

I hope you're right. At that point in Cody Green's career we thought we had "quality" depth behind Martinez as well. We all thought the QB race was between Lee/Green, which is saying something for Green considering Lee had started the prior year and finished the season w/ a great game. Only time will tell, we just haven't seen enough of Armstrong yet to make much of a determination of what he'll become.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Simply put, the reason Martinez played injured his fresman and sophomore year, was because of the lack of depth. Just because you have a body, doesn't mean you have depth. This is common sense. This year, we have QUALITY depth, something Taylor has NEVER had behind him, except for Lee, but he was injured.

I hope you're right. At that point in Cody Green's career we thought we had "quality" depth behind Martinez as well. We all thought the QB race was between Lee/Green, which is saying something for Green considering Lee had started the prior year and finished the season w/ a great game. Only time will tell, we just haven't seen enough of Armstrong yet to make much of a determination of what he'll become.

Very true, but we have seen a glimpse of what RKIII can bring to the table. Even better, he knows the playbook better than Martinez does, and he can read defenses. He just isn't the guy that fits our offense, hence why he isn't the starter. If we were strictly a west coast pocket passing offense, he would most likely be our #1 guy. Cody Green just couldn't perform on the field, and I was never impressed with him here. This is how some guys are, but the mental aspect between Armstrong and Green are completely different.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Simply put, the reason Martinez played injured his fresman and sophomore year, was because of the lack of depth. Just because you have a body, doesn't mean you have depth. This is common sense. This year, we have QUALITY depth, something Taylor has NEVER had behind him, except for Lee, but he was injured.

I hope you're right. At that point in Cody Green's career we thought we had "quality" depth behind Martinez as well. We all thought the QB race was between Lee/Green, which is saying something for Green considering Lee had started the prior year and finished the season w/ a great game. Only time will tell, we just haven't seen enough of Armstrong yet to make much of a determination of what he'll become.

Very true, but we have seen a glimpse of what RKIII can bring to the table. Even better, he knows the playbook better than Martinez does, and he can read defenses. He just isn't the guy that fits our offense, hence why he isn't the starter. If we were strictly a west coast pocket passing offense, he would most likely be our #1 guy.

Yeah, at least this year we arent discussing whether or not our #1 RB would take snaps under center if Martinez went out (that was discussed plenty a couple years ago). So we must be better off.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Name one backup quarterback who has a lot of playing time.

Go on, do it.

Mizzou's backup QB usually gets a series or so. Even in big games. That's one thing Pinkel does a pretty good job of. It's something Pelini could do a better job of.

But yeah, I agree with you. Backup QBs generally don't have much experience at all.

Pinkel's the only one that I know of who does this. I remember the '05 Missouri game with Brad Smith murdering us. Missouri up 24-7. In comes a particular Chase Daniel in the 2nd qtr for some of those infamous "meaningful snaps". He goes three and out. TD Nebraska. He throws a pick. TD Nebraska. (if I'm recalling correctly). Brad Smith promptly returns to the game after the game gets tied at 24. Missouri wins 41-24.

With that said. I prefer we dont do this. The starter is the starter for a reason. As long as the game is in question whatsoever, he's the one that should be on the field. The backup will get his meaningful snaps......when he's the the best qb on the chart.

Well, that's not quite how it happened. Close though. It's impressive that your memory is that good--mine's not. (I had to look it up. LINK) Daniels was in for one short drive, made a first down, got sacked a couple of times and Mizzou punted. He didn't throw an interception. But Brad Smith threw a pick a couple of series later. That's probably what you're thinking of.

I think Pinkel is smart for doing this. They might not do as well while the backup is in. But Pinkel is able to point out stuff to his starter while on the sideline for that one series. That, plus his backup gets valuable PT. Which would come in handy if the number one ever goes down.

Thanks for lookin it up. My recollection was a bit shady. Bottom line is-to me anyway-subbing in Daniels for Smith in the 2nd quarter completely backfired and put a halt to all momentum Missouri had. We tied the game shortly thereafter going into the break. Had we been able to sustain and win the game, that move by Pinkel wouldve been crucified.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Guys. Does anyone in the entire coutry really have "depth" at the qb position as some here are suggesting that we dont have? I mean seriously, is there anyone in the country that's going to be as good with their #2 qb after injury as they were with #1. Even '94 Nebraska wasnt as good with Berringer instead of Frazier. We're not the only team in the country that would have issues if our #1 qb goes down for an extended period of time for whatever the reason. Looking back on the 2010 season, I think it's safe to say that a hobbled Martinez gave us a better chance to win than a healthy, deer-in-the-headlights Cody Green. Martinez wouldve been serviceable as a hobbled qb had the playcalling not been so erratically incompetent.

Ummm.....no. Cody Green was more than serviceable and gave us much better chance vs aTm. Hell, Z.Lee was healthy enough to manage the offense in that game. No they weren't the play makers that Martinez was (healthy) but Martinez was no better than any QB in the nation after the injury in 2010. I can't remember which game Martinez came back in at QB replacing either Green/Lee and the defense was heard screaming (even on the TV) for a blitz because Martinez couldn't move around and his passing played defense on itself.

Cody green was melting down like everyone else in College Station that night. Cody Green just didnt have the mentality. The skills, yes, but not the mentality.

 

[The Dude]

Name one backup quarterback who has a lot of playing time.

Go on, do it.

Just one? Kain Colter.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

Name one backup quarterback who has a lot of playing time.

Go on, do it.

Just one? Kain Colter.

Kain Colter is their starter, the only game all year he didn't start was against us last year. I think you meant Trevor Siemian, but I don't think there is another D1 school who runs two QB's like NW, but either way, +1 for finding a 2nd string who gets quality time, even though you named their starter

 

[AllNRed]

.... -1st it wasn't most of his freshman year. He played in 4 games after his injury, that's not most of the season -2nd, the decision to keep him in was the decision of an inexperienced HC not the experienced OC. Martinez is Bo's guy. Watson wanted Green in. -3rd, the 3rd player on the roster had a year of starting experience under his belt. Though Z.Lee wasn't that good, he still is able to manage the offense. -4th, our next 3 games were against ISU/KU/aTm...none were big threats. Bo's wanted to give that "fear factor" to the opposing defenses so he stuck a QB who could barely walk on the field. Green was 4-0 as a starter at NU, which shows he had at least enough talent to manage the offense.

- He was injurred halfway through the Missouri game....there were 6 games after that. so 6.5 games...that's a pretty good chunk of the non-gimme games...about all them. - You know Watson wanted Green in? How so, because he had performed so well up to that point? - Zac Lee was reportedly injured as well - We lost 1 of those three, and barely got by ISU in OT...and Martinez/Lee bailed Green out of at least 1 if not 2 of those starts to give him the W. ....and Marsh left the program a long time ago.

-Martinez didn't play in 2 of those games remaining (ISU/CU) so 4.5 games is still a big chunk but no most of the season

-Who do you think recruited Green? Green was recruited and mentored by Watson. Strong arm and decent mobility is what Watson looked for in his QBs, (refer to Teddy Bridgewater) Watson knew nothing about Martinez when asked after the Arizona game about what he thinks Martinez's chances are at the QB position. Why is that? Because Martinez didn't work out with the QBs as a redshirt. He played WR. If you care to go back and look at the players who were raving about his speed, you'd notice they were DBs (Amukumara/Hagg/Gomes?etc).....why? Because those were the guys covering him.. Even during spring camp that year, there were disagreements between Bo and Shawn about their evaluations of the QBs, this is what caused (or rather aided to) the lack of chemistry amongst the two. Without throwing out names of sources, I'll just say there's a reason why Bo was so willing to "help" Watson find another gig after the 2010 but defended him repeatedly for the 2009 season.......hmmmm......also, to the fact that Cody Green decided to transfer after the spring camp even though he would have been one injury away from starting at NU under the new OC. There's a reason why newly inducted HOF'er Tommie Frazier had less than positive comments about how the current staff was handling the QB rotation a couple seasons back (remember B.Carnes is his relative). Many feel/felt that Bo's standard for competing for you job every week doesn't apply at that position......just sayin'.

-Yes, Lee was "reported" injured, but Lee also said at the end of the season that he was good to go the next after his injury. A lot of things are "reported" and not "reported", but do you really think we will know everything about through the media?......

-Which one did we lose.....His starts were against Baylor (2009), Oklahoma (2009), Iowa St (2010), & Colorado (2010).....Yes, he was only in for a series for the OU game. But he also led the only TD drive for NU in the TTU game. None of the games he started Martinez had a snap in so I'm not sure what you are saying there. Give credit where credit is due, rather than belittling his accomplishments so that your opinion may seem valid.

-I totally forgot Marsh was no longer here. He went to UNK right?