Man I forgot how good Taylor's wheels were

[SuperBigFan69]

I'm totally in the minority here and I've been on record since 2009 that he will be in NY for the ceremony before he leaves...

But, save for Gill (who I personally believe was hands down the best): There's a real argument that TM is the second best QB this team has ever seen. IMHO, roughly half of his turnovers would be bye bye if he wasn't forced to 'force' so much throughout his career. I don't have the time or energy to crunch the numbers...but if you slice 50% of the turnovers from fumbles / interceptions he's accounted for, I'll bet it's on par with the likes of all the greats...or at least real close.

I'm not saying he IS the second best....but there is a REAL arugument there. As so many have said time and again, give him the teams some of those greats had........oh wait......he might have it this year to prove! Offensively at least!

Until he wins a championship or a post-season game period, there's no argument.

So, does that mean that Suh and David are not some of the best ever DT's and linebackers since they did not win a championship?

 

[Landlord]

I'm totally in the minority here and I've been on record since 2009 that he will be in NY for the ceremony before he leaves...

But, save for Gill (who I personally believe was hands down the best): There's a real argument that TM is the second best QB this team has ever seen. IMHO, roughly half of his turnovers would be bye bye if he wasn't forced to 'force' so much throughout his career. I don't have the time or energy to crunch the numbers...but if you slice 50% of the turnovers from fumbles / interceptions he's accounted for, I'll bet it's on par with the likes of all the greats...or at least real close.

I'm not saying he IS the second best....but there is a REAL arugument there. As so many have said time and again, give him the teams some of those greats had........oh wait......he might have it this year to prove! Offensively at least!

Until he wins a championship or a post-season game period, there's no argument.

So, does that mean that Suh and David are not some of the best ever DT's and linebackers since they did not win a championship?

Being the quarterback is different. We all know it is, Taylor knows it is too.

 

[HotGrillonGrillAction]

I'm totally in the minority here and I've been on record since 2009 that he will be in NY for the ceremony before he leaves...

But, save for Gill (who I personally believe was hands down the best): There's a real argument that TM is the second best QB this team has ever seen. IMHO, roughly half of his turnovers would be bye bye if he wasn't forced to 'force' so much throughout his career. I don't have the time or energy to crunch the numbers...but if you slice 50% of the turnovers from fumbles / interceptions he's accounted for, I'll bet it's on par with the likes of all the greats...or at least real close.

I'm not saying he IS the second best....but there is a REAL arugument there. As so many have said time and again, give him the teams some of those greats had........oh wait......he might have it this year to prove! Offensively at least!

Until he wins a championship or a post-season game period, there's no argument.

So, does that mean that Suh and David are not some of the best ever DT's and linebackers since they did not win a championship?

Being the quarterback is different. We all know it is, Taylor knows it is too.

I just don't agree with it. Based on play alone, I find it hard to at least not include TM in the discussion. I understand the judgment is generally different due to the attention of the position, but the same excuses used for Suh and David (and many others - i.e. not having an offense, QB, supporting cast) could be and are used in comparing all positions, including QB.

Gill is widely regarded as the greatest ever on this board, yet no NC to speak of. Not winning in the post season vs winning in the post season (TM vs Gill / others) is more or less the same comparison as not winning a NC vs winning a NC (ala Gill vs Frazier).

 

[SuperBigFan69]

Jay Barker and AJ Mccaron are the two best QBs ever, cause they won national championships.

 

[HotGrillonGrillAction]

Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!

 

[Landlord]

Jay Barker and AJ Mccaron are the two best QBs ever, cause they won national championships.

Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!

Championships are an important and weighty part of the equation, not the entirety of the equation. No need to resort to a strawman here.

I just don't agree with it. Based on play alone, I find it hard to at least not include TM in the discussion. I understand the judgment is generally different due to the attention of the position, but the same excuses used for Suh and David (and many others - i.e. not having an offense, QB, supporting cast) could be and are used in comparing all positions, including QB.

Gill is widely regarded as the greatest ever on this board, yet no NC to speak of. Not winning in the post season vs winning in the post season (TM vs Gill / others) is more or less the same comparison as not winning a NC vs winning a NC (ala Gill vs Frazier).

Even if we weren't looking specifically at national championships and championships in general, there is still a glaring discrepancy here. Taylor is winless in the postseason. He's 0-5. Zero wins in five games. Not only that, but we've shown that we had the talent and ability to win most if not all of those games, so the arguments listed above can't hold water. Further, in a number of those games (certainly not all), his play was at best neutral to the team's success and at worst a detriment. Losing by a field goal to Oklahoma when leading 17-0, losing to a Washington team we had blown out earlier in the year (no need to mention our lack of motivation; everyone knows it exists), getting trounced by a Wisconsin team we had also beat earlier, etc.

Look, I love Taylor. I've been a huge fan of his since day one and he has had some gutsy and inspired football games for us. He's carried this team at times, but he's also had some moments of serious self destruction. Even if he has just as high of highs, how many of our great quarterbacks in the past have had the low and awful performances that Taylor fell into early in his career? He's had clutch moments but not quite that warrant him serious discussion as the greatest quarterback in school history. But he's got an entire season to finish his legacy and I hope he rises to the occasion.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Brian Greise. LOL.

Ken Dorsey. haha.

TIM FRICKIN TEBOW. BAHAHA

Chris Weinke?

Josh Heupel?

I'll take Martinez over every single name I just mentioned.

Defining the success of a qb from an individual basis by championships is just not right. You have to look as his alone body of work. Case in point. The 2012 season. Taylor carried this team for 95% of the season. Burkhead was in and out, and the defense was porous on a good day. He has been very good, and without the supporting cast the greats have had. That's enough to put him in the conversation. But Landlord is right to an extent. Without championships, he will be forgotten to an extent. But it doesnt mean it's right.

 

[HotGrillonGrillAction]

FINE THEN! (didn't give up on this argument.....just gotta go work).

 

[ZRod]

I think you're pretty flat out wrong.

Taylor has a cannon for an arm; he throws lazer beams. He has really great accuracy too, at least when he's confident and going through his mechanics properly (see Southern Miss).

Literally the only thing keeping Taylor from being an NFL thrower is between his ears. He makes poor decisions and doesn't read defenses well enough. He has the physical ability in every other area.

He can definitely rifle the short throws but on intermediate to long balls he seems more often than not to under throw his receivers. Maybe that comes down to his mechanics, but that's what I was getting at. I should have been more specific.

 

[Mavric]

Jay Barker and AJ Mccaron are the two best QBs ever, cause they won national championships.

Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!

Championships are an important and weighty part of the equation, not the entirety of the equation. No need to resort to a strawman here.

I agree. But your previous post didn't mention any other factors.

 

[Landlord]

Jay Barker and AJ Mccaron are the two best QBs ever, cause they won national championships.

Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!

Championships are an important and weighty part of the equation, not the entirety of the equation. No need to resort to a strawman here.

I agree. But your previous post didn't mention any other factors.

The context of the conversation had already illuminated the things that already make him great, and my post was illustrating what is missing.

 

[Mavric]

Jay Barker and AJ Mccaron are the two best QBs ever, cause they won national championships.

Well then! Let's include Craig Krenzel and Matt Mauck!!!!

Championships are an important and weighty part of the equation, not the entirety of the equation. No need to resort to a strawman here.

I agree. But your previous post didn't mention any other factors.

The context of the conversation had already illuminated the things that already make him great, and my post was illustrating what is missing.

You said it didn't matter how great he was until he wins a championship.

 

[Landlord]

You said it didn't matter how great he was until he wins a championship.

What I actually said was that he doesn't have a compelling argument as greatest quarterback in school history if he doesn't win a championship. They're very different.

 

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

I wouldn't put anything past Taylor. I think he's shown us that he's willing to put in the extra time. If he keeps getting better by working with his QB guy then who knows where he could end up. If he can get more consistent with his footwork and launch point then we could be looking at the next drew Brees. I think TM has the arm. His mechanics fail his accuracy too often but like I said, if he fixes that, I think he could be a good NFL QB

 

[Mierin]

You said it didn't matter how great he was until he wins a championship.

What I actually said was that he doesn't have a compelling argument as greatest quarterback in school history if he doesn't win a championship. They're very different.

Yes, he does have a compelling argument. Does Suh not have a compelling argument as the greatest DT in school history? He won no championships.