Paps excited about D

knapplc said:
saunders45 said:
knapplc said:
Are those kids who were going to Northwestern Missouri State or kids who were going to other D1 schools but chose to walk on here?
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Does it matter? It's entirely irrelevant to your original point.

knapplc said:
How does that tuition increase compare to other schools? It's only a problem if the cost to go to UNL is greater than other schools. Since most of our walk-ons are in-state, the guys who would normally walk on here are either going to go to another in-state school or pay out-of-state tuition rates to go to another school.
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If players can't afford to walk on (because of the gigantic increase in tuition) and have to take a scholarship at a smaller school out of state, it absolutely affects the depth of the team. Look at how many guys from NE have got offers from South Dakota state alone.
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My point was that tuition has gone up at every school, not just Nebraska. Citing UNL's rising tuition costs in a vacuum appears bad, but it's not the whole picture.

Agreed that depth of the team takes a hit with higher tuition. It also takes a hit with the 85 scholarship limit. Same with Title IX. There are lots of things affecting the numbers of athletes we have in the player pool, and tuition is one of them.
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Which is why you see parity and a dispersal of talent. Chris was simply using UNL's costs because we were talking about NU.

 
knapplc said:
My point was that tuition has gone up at every school, not just Nebraska. Citing UNL's rising tuition costs in a vacuum appears bad, but it's not the whole picture.

Agreed that depth of the team takes a hit with higher tuition. It also takes a hit with the 85 scholarship limit. Same with Title IX. There are lots of things affecting the numbers of athletes we have in the player pool, and tuition is one of them.
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Buster already said it, but nobody is trying to only focus on UNL's tuition. It's not a matter of raised tuition vs. raised tuition (here and there), it's a matter of raised tuition vs. not having to pay any tuition.

Decades ago the gap between those two options was much smaller and made for an easier sacrifice to foot the bill and walk-on. Now, it requires too much of a lot of kids/families to not take the free money.

 
OK. I concede whatever point you guys are making. I'm looking at it differently, and apparently not in the correct manner for this conversation. knapplc out. :D

 
This walk-on discussion is a little baffling to me, considering the core of our O-Line (which was good last year, and I expect to be even better this year) is former walk-ons. Spencer Long, Cole Pensick, Mark Pelini. The walk-ons on our O-Line have out-performed the scholly guys as a whole in recent history. Then add in Broderick Nickens who has been cited as a guy to watch on the DL this year. And FB historically at NU has been composed of walk-ons. Zimmerer & Janovich, both solid FBs.

When it comes to skill position guys, our walk-ons just can't measure up athletically to the guys that we can get from Florida, Texas, California, etc. There will always be exceptions, but that generalization holds true for the most part. Wullenwaber, the occasional TE, are exceptions.

 
HuskerShark said:
This walk-on discussion is a little baffling to me, considering the core of our O-Line (which was good last year, and I expect to be even better this year) is former walk-ons. Spencer Long, Cole Pensick, Mark Pelini. The walk-ons on our O-Line have out-performed the scholly guys as a whole in recent history. Then add in Broderick Nickens who has been cited as a guy to watch on the DL this year. And FB historically at NU has been composed of walk-ons. Zimmerer & Janovich, both solid FBs.

When it comes to skill position guys, our walk-ons just can't measure up athletically to the guys that we can get from Florida, Texas, California, etc. There will always be exceptions, but that generalization holds true for the most part. Wullenwaber, the occasional TE, are exceptions.
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Agree with you here. (especially the skill guys) I think what we're saying is that the odds are getting worse. We used to have our pick of the 25-30 best in-state kids. Maybe a couple got scholarships, but if Tom wanted them...99 out of 100 of the rest were going to walk-on and be a Husker. Now, a lot of other variables are coming into play for the reasoning behind that not being the case. TV visibility for the smaller schools is huge, loyalty to the Husker program (or anything for that matter) with kids today is probably less than it was 30 years ago. But tuition is a major, major factor. And with the recession we just went through - I'd say it will trend towards being even more of a factor in the decisions. That means that out of the 30 best NE HS football players, maybe the top 10 will have scholarship offers to D2 of FCS schools such as Ohio or SD State. The bottom 20 will have scholarship offers to Doane, or Wayne State, etc....We'll still probably be pretty appealing to those bottom 20. But to those top 10...the financial decision is probably going to work against us to the point that we'll lose out on the bulk of them unless we offer schollys. Doesn't mean those bottom 20 aren't great players, and we won't pick up a few of those other 10....but if we miss on 6-8 of the top NE prospects every year now, that's going to show up in the quality of the walk-on program. Just a trend we're starting to see. I think it will continue.

 
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knapplc said:
OK. I concede whatever point you guys are making. I'm looking at it differently, and apparently not in the correct manner for this conversation. knapplc out. :D
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Knapplc; No reason to concede anything as the points being brought up by many are in reference to EZ-E comment about walk-ons (see below)

"EZ-E, on 23 July 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

There will never again be 5-8 players in the state that we can scholarship and the walk-on program (while it truly is top notch) will never be what it was. Why? BECAUSE THERE ARE NOW SCHOLARSHIP LIMITS AND MORE OPTIONS FOR CFB PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

This is not just a Nebraska issue but more of an athlete choosing a scholarship at another institution (any) to get their degree rather than walking on at Nebraska or any other major institution!

So in essence it is plausible that the number of walk ons could be diminishing due to economics and more choices being given to athlete than in earlier time frames. :dunno

 
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Mavric said:
kchusker_chris said:
2011 - CJax has not developed as quickly as I thought he would, but I think he'll get into the 2-Deep and step up this year. Santos was a great get in that class. Williams would not be playing more than 20 snaps if we weren't so thin at DT IMO. Same goes for Pirman. They're young and I could be wrong, but I think these 2 are more a product of the situation than their talent and work getting them into a 2-deep.

2010 - Cooper, Evans, and HJax were my 3. Mitchell is going to be competing with Siesay, Green, Evans, SJB and Rose for that CB spot. Don't see him breaking into the 2-deep. Maybe a 2b...but not much of a contributer this year. SJB I didn't count because he was recruited as a WR. He would probably still be there had there been any kind of depth at CB. (although i'm really glad he moved)

2009 - I missed Akrah, could only think of Randle off the top of my head.

But still...that's 7 defensive players out of 3 classes to fill a 22 man 2-deep. That's putting some pretty immense pressure on the 2012/2013 classes...and elevating some other guys that probably shouldn't be in the 2-deep in the first place.
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Mitchell played in 13 games last year and made 8 starts. I think that qualifies as a contributor.

If you're not counting SJB because he was recruited on offense, are you going to count the players who were recruited as defensive players but are contributing on offense (J. Cotton and Pensick)?
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Even JP isn't mentioning him when discussing the secondary. I just don't see him playing much this year.

And then in the secondary, where we are a little bit more mature, Ciante Evans, Stanley Baptiste, Mo Seisay, Harvey Jackson, Corey Cooper, where I really saw those guys make a jump is just a better feel of the nuances of the defense.
I think the corner battle is going to be really interesting because there's a bunch of guys that can win spots. Stanley Baptiste, Andrew Green, Mo Seisay, Jonathan Rose ---- so you're looking at four pretty talented guys competing for really one spot opposite Ciante in base.

http://espn.go.com/b...r-john-papuchis
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And if we were talking about the offense, no I probably wouldn't mention those guys we thought would be playing on D when recruited...though I think both of those guys were targeted for the offense, or at least discussed..even though Rivals didn't have them listed that way.

 
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kchusker_chris said:
knapplc said:
How does that tuition increase compare to other schools? It's only a problem if the cost to go to UNL is greater than other schools. Since most of our walk-ons are in-state, the guys who would normally walk on here are either going to go to another in-state school or pay out-of-state tuition rates to go to another school.
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No, it's a problem when a kid can no longer walk away from the full ride that accompanies their North Dakota State offer, and walk on at UNL without being burdened by 20 years of student loan debt. In the mid-90's that was possible. Today, a kid that would have walked on 20 years ago...almost has to take the Northwest Missouri offer, or the South Dakota State offer. It seems like there are half a dozen every year in this same boat.

Our walk-on class is trending towards being comprised of lesser athletes, or kids from families that are well off. The middle-ground, good but not great athletes...those are the future contributors, and most of them are choosing the $$ - and no one can blame them.
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Our walk-on program is very good. One of the best if not the best in the nation.

 
EZ-E said:
kchusker_chris said:
knapplc said:
How does that tuition increase compare to other schools? It's only a problem if the cost to go to UNL is greater than other schools. Since most of our walk-ons are in-state, the guys who would normally walk on here are either going to go to another in-state school or pay out-of-state tuition rates to go to another school.
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No, it's a problem when a kid can no longer walk away from the full ride that accompanies their North Dakota State offer, and walk on at UNL without being burdened by 20 years of student loan debt. In the mid-90's that was possible. Today, a kid that would have walked on 20 years ago...almost has to take the Northwest Missouri offer, or the South Dakota State offer. It seems like there are half a dozen every year in this same boat.

Our walk-on class is trending towards being comprised of lesser athletes, or kids from families that are well off. The middle-ground, good but not great athletes...those are the future contributors, and most of them are choosing the $$ - and no one can blame them.
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Our walk-on program is very good. One of the best if not the best in the nation.
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ok...and....?...

 
EZ-E said:
kchusker_chris said:
knapplc said:
How does that tuition increase compare to other schools? It's only a problem if the cost to go to UNL is greater than other schools. Since most of our walk-ons are in-state, the guys who would normally walk on here are either going to go to another in-state school or pay out-of-state tuition rates to go to another school.
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No, it's a problem when a kid can no longer walk away from the full ride that accompanies their North Dakota State offer, and walk on at UNL without being burdened by 20 years of student loan debt. In the mid-90's that was possible. Today, a kid that would have walked on 20 years ago...almost has to take the Northwest Missouri offer, or the South Dakota State offer. It seems like there are half a dozen every year in this same boat.

Our walk-on class is trending towards being comprised of lesser athletes, or kids from families that are well off. The middle-ground, good but not great athletes...those are the future contributors, and most of them are choosing the $$ - and no one can blame them.
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Our walk-on program is very good. One of the best if not the best in the nation.
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Very true, and I don't think anybody is disputing that, but all kchusker_chris is trying to say (and he's right) is that while the walk-on program at NU is probably the best in the nation, it isn't what it was back in the day. And he has pointed out a few major reasons why that is the case. I don't think it's a problem that needs to be fixed, just the direction that recent history has led us.

 
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saunders45 said:
kchusker_chris said:
Same article...I thought Roach was out. Why would JP mention him?

And another guy who has been in the program for a while and has played on special teams, and has always been one play away from having a more significant role is Trevor Roach. He's done a nice job of being a leader and more of a veteran guy with that group.
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http://espn.go.com/b...r-john-papuchis
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They interviewed him a few weeks ago.
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Ah, makes sense. He was mentioned a couple times in that article. I still don't think the loss is huge (except it puts another ding in our depth), but JP must have thought pretty highly of Roach. Maybe he was poised to have a big year.

 
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