**** Official Hockey Thread **** (NHL & College)

ZRod said:
MLB 51 said:
iamthenorm said:
As a Blues fan, the divisions are pretty solid. Everything is right in the central time zones. I will miss playing Detroit so much, but the Blue Jacket games were always snoozers. I'm ready for the season to begin again.
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I'm ready for the new season as well.
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How convenient it's only 3 months away!
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Technically the first Blues game is 67 days away. Today they reupped w/anheuser busch, not officially hockey news but certainly makes my game experience better.

 
For some of you hockey experts out there;

I bet my business partner, who is a rabid North Dakota Fighting Sioux hockey fan, that with the new Big Ten hockey conference in 10 years will be the premier power conference.

Thoughts?

 
Oh thats a tough one. If they can get more B1G members and have them be competitive and I could see that. The WCHA has some pretty brutal teams year in and year out but for whatever reason they are generally competitive and can steal wins at any moment, which makes it interesting week in and week out. The B1G map spreads across a lot of big hockey regions in the US and in theory could give the conference a pretty big leg up in recruiting with so many good hockey schools having such a large area to draw from.

Adding nebraska seems viable with PBA opening soon, Illinois has a decent club team from what I hear (might have just been moderate success or my ears deceiving me, IDK), Northwestern would have a good Chicago area draw and maybe Purdue or Iowa. Iowa has the MN Wild affiliate there now and has a fair amount of USHL and such type of draw. Purdue or Indiana could fight over that state. Pennsylvania has become a hotbed for hockey and Penn State had a pretty good first season in the bigs. I could see some of the southern B1G schools pulling some similar successes because of untapped talent.

The drawback is it could water down the skill level and some of those schools making the jump from "club teams" to full fledged D1 could get roughed up for a while. The parity would be pretty brutal. Trying to get a program going when having to compete against the perennial powerhouse teams of the current NCAA setup won't be easy in the least.

 
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For my dollar, the WCHA is the best conference in college hockey. They've won 36 national titles, had 28 national title runner ups, and about 8 or 9 years ago, the last four teams in the Frozen Four, were all WCHA teams...

As for the B1G becoming a power hockey conference, I'm going to say no. The newly formed NCHC (National Collegiate Hockey Conference) will have my Sioux, Denver, Colorado College, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, Neb-Omaha, and Miami, which still makes them a stud conference. Until everyone else gets up to speed in the B1G, you're going to see Minnesota and Wisconsin winning the conference title every year, for a long time to come...

 
walksalone said:
For my dollar, the WCHA is the best conference in college hockey. They've won 36 national titles, had 28 national title runner ups, and about 8 or 9 years ago, the last four teams in the Frozen Four, were all WCHA teams...

As for the B1G becoming a power hockey conference, I'm going to say no. The newly formed NCHC (National Collegiate Hockey Conference) will have my Sioux, Denver, Colorado College, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, Neb-Omaha, and Miami, which still makes them a stud conference. Until everyone else gets up to speed in the B1G, you're going to see Minnesota and Wisconsin winning the conference title every year, for a long time to come...
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I think we all can agree it will take time for the B1G to get up to speed but the questions was not the historically best conference but in 10 years will the B1G be the best? To which I think we all can agree, as a 6 team conference with 4 of the 6 as perennial big hitters (and the other two being decent themselves) there could be arguments of "look at the parity top to bottom and the percentage of winners and all that" but that 6 team roster will be a knock as well because its only 6 teams and leaves the door open for more cake non-conference games (not necessarily guaranteed) and inflated records. But if even a handfuld of other B1G schools get their act/teams together a la Penn State, the B1G could be a legitimate contender for that title.

The new NCHC and WCHA schools are going to hurt a bit as a result of losing the larger TV markets, the big name schools and the money all that brings in. Does that necessarily mean they will all get worse and lose a ton of cred? No, they have their history of relevant success working in their favor, some have new or renovated facilities and some have a stranglehold on their respective markets (the Colorado schools). That could be enough to keep them up there but not generally enough. Also, just like football and basketball, tv is a big player in many aspects including recruiting. I am not sure the likes of Duluth and North Dakota can carry those other NCHC teams and keep them in the "premier" category without some major steps up in relevance/winning/tradition/history from the other schools but who knows. St. Cloud has seen steady growth and had a great run last season that could lead to more. Omaha has a legend for a coach who can do big things. Miami, CC and Denver have been solid but with Gwoz out at Denver, that leaves their near future a bit in limbo. You can't argue against the fact that schools apart of a major conference have far greater advantages than schools in not as large conferences. Not to mention the fact that the names in the B1G are already some of the "premier" NCAA hockey schools. So by making this conference they already inherit a bunch of cred just by who they are and the conference they belong to.

If we are projecting today's conferences, 10 years from now...I would say probably the top three would be Hockey East, NCHC and B1G, in any order and the B1Gs fate depends entirely on adding member schools and scheduling. The success of the NCHC will hinge on how they can rebound and survive/thrive without relying so heavily on the likes of the Badgers/Gophers. With Hockey East's mid/low tier teams being inconsistent year to year, that leaves the door open for the B1G definitely, with plenty of potential, to be the premier hockey conference.

 
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icedavis said:
walksalone said:
For my dollar, the WCHA is the best conference in college hockey. They've won 36 national titles, had 28 national title runner ups, and about 8 or 9 years ago, the last four teams in the Frozen Four, were all WCHA teams...

As for the B1G becoming a power hockey conference, I'm going to say no. The newly formed NCHC (National Collegiate Hockey Conference) will have my Sioux, Denver, Colorado College, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, Neb-Omaha, and Miami, which still makes them a stud conference. Until everyone else gets up to speed in the B1G, you're going to see Minnesota and Wisconsin winning the conference title every year, for a long time to come...
Click to expand...
I think we all can agree it will take time for the B1G to get up to speed but the questions was not the historically best conference but in 10 years will the B1G be the best? To which I think we all can agree, as a 6 team conference with 4 of the 6 as perennial big hitters (and the other two being decent themselves) there could be arguments of "look at the parity top to bottom and the percentage of winners and all that" but that 6 team roster will be a knock as well because its only 6 teams and leaves the door open for more cake non-conference games (not necessarily guaranteed) and inflated records. But if even a handfuld of other B1G schools get their act/teams together a la Penn State, the B1G could be a legitimate contender for that title.

The new NCHC and WCHA schools are going to hurt a bit as a result of losing the larger TV markets, the big name schools and the money all that brings in. Does that necessarily mean they will all get worse and lose a ton of cred? No, they have their history of relevant success working in their favor, some have new or renovated facilities and some have a stranglehold on their respective markets (the Colorado schools). That could be enough to keep them up there but not generally enough. Also, just like football and basketball, tv is a big player in many aspects including recruiting. I am not sure the likes of Duluth and North Dakota can carry those other NCHC teams and keep them in the "premier" category without some major steps up in relevance/winning/tradition/history from the other schools but who knows. St. Cloud has seen steady growth and had a great run last season that could lead to more. Omaha has a legend for a coach who can do big things. Miami, CC and Denver have been solid but with Gwoz out at Denver, that leaves their near future a bit in limbo. You can't argue against the fact that schools apart of a major conference have far greater advantages than schools in not as large conferences. Not to mention the fact that the names in the B1G are already some of the "premier" NCAA hockey schools. So by making this conference they already inherit a bunch of cred just by who they are and the conference they belong to.

If we are projecting today's conferences, 10 years from now...I would say probably the top three would be Hockey East, NCHC and B1G, in any order and the B1Gs fate depends entirely on adding member schools and scheduling. The success of the NCHC will hinge on how they can rebound and survive/thrive without relying so heavily on the likes of the Badgers/Gophers. With Hockey East's mid/low tier teams being inconsistent year to year, that leaves the door open for the B1G definitely, with plenty of potential, to be the premier hockey conference.
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I'll respectfully disagree with you. B1G will be a decent hockey conference, but it will be well behind Hockey East and the NCHC. The NCHC isn't going to be hurt much, at if all with losing TV revenue. They were good without it, and those people that follow their hockey closely, will know the difference.

If a stud prospect is given the chance between choosing say Penn St or North Dakota, he's going to Grand Forks. Minnesota and Wisconsin will terrorize the B1G for many, many years, but after that you are going to see a significant drop off. Denver is going to remain solid, even without Gwoz, because a lot of folks were worried about No Dak after they lost Blais, but Hakstol has shown they're just fine. Just because they won't have their own network, that doesn't carry a lot of weight in college hockey.

I'd bet you many beers, 10 years from now, the NCHC (or what ever they'll end up being called) will have twice as many teams going to the frozen four than the B1G will.

 
walksalone said:
icedavis said:
walksalone said:
For my dollar, the WCHA is the best conference in college hockey. They've won 36 national titles, had 28 national title runner ups, and about 8 or 9 years ago, the last four teams in the Frozen Four, were all WCHA teams...

As for the B1G becoming a power hockey conference, I'm going to say no. The newly formed NCHC (National Collegiate Hockey Conference) will have my Sioux, Denver, Colorado College, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, Neb-Omaha, and Miami, which still makes them a stud conference. Until everyone else gets up to speed in the B1G, you're going to see Minnesota and Wisconsin winning the conference title every year, for a long time to come...
Click to expand...
I think we all can agree it will take time for the B1G to get up to speed but the questions was not the historically best conference but in 10 years will the B1G be the best? To which I think we all can agree, as a 6 team conference with 4 of the 6 as perennial big hitters (and the other two being decent themselves) there could be arguments of "look at the parity top to bottom and the percentage of winners and all that" but that 6 team roster will be a knock as well because its only 6 teams and leaves the door open for more cake non-conference games (not necessarily guaranteed) and inflated records. But if even a handfuld of other B1G schools get their act/teams together a la Penn State, the B1G could be a legitimate contender for that title.

The new NCHC and WCHA schools are going to hurt a bit as a result of losing the larger TV markets, the big name schools and the money all that brings in. Does that necessarily mean they will all get worse and lose a ton of cred? No, they have their history of relevant success working in their favor, some have new or renovated facilities and some have a stranglehold on their respective markets (the Colorado schools). That could be enough to keep them up there but not generally enough. Also, just like football and basketball, tv is a big player in many aspects including recruiting. I am not sure the likes of Duluth and North Dakota can carry those other NCHC teams and keep them in the "premier" category without some major steps up in relevance/winning/tradition/history from the other schools but who knows. St. Cloud has seen steady growth and had a great run last season that could lead to more. Omaha has a legend for a coach who can do big things. Miami, CC and Denver have been solid but with Gwoz out at Denver, that leaves their near future a bit in limbo. You can't argue against the fact that schools apart of a major conference have far greater advantages than schools in not as large conferences. Not to mention the fact that the names in the B1G are already some of the "premier" NCAA hockey schools. So by making this conference they already inherit a bunch of cred just by who they are and the conference they belong to.

If we are projecting today's conferences, 10 years from now...I would say probably the top three would be Hockey East, NCHC and B1G, in any order and the B1Gs fate depends entirely on adding member schools and scheduling. The success of the NCHC will hinge on how they can rebound and survive/thrive without relying so heavily on the likes of the Badgers/Gophers. With Hockey East's mid/low tier teams being inconsistent year to year, that leaves the door open for the B1G definitely, with plenty of potential, to be the premier hockey conference.
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1. I'll respectfully disagree with you. B1G will be a decent hockey conference, but it will be well behind Hockey East and the NCHC. The NCHC isn't going to be hurt much, at if all with losing TV revenue. They were good without it, and those people that follow their hockey closely, will know the difference.

2. If a stud prospect is given the chance between choosing say Penn St or North Dakota, he's going to Grand Forks. Minnesota and Wisconsin will terrorize the B1G for many, many years, but after that you are going to see a significant drop off. Denver is going to remain solid, even without Gwoz, because a lot of folks were worried about No Dak after they lost Blais, but Hakstol has shown they're just fine. Just because they won't have their own network, that doesn't carry a lot of weight in college hockey.

I'd bet you many beers, 10 years from now, the NCHC (or what ever they'll end up being called) will have twice as many teams going to the frozen four than the B1G will.
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Understood. I hear ya.

1. It extends far beyond just tv revenues though. TV was probably not a good example because of how few WCHA games were on regional, let alone national TV. Ticket sales will drop for most NCHC schools quite a bit. I will use my alma mater St. Cloud as an example. The only games the NHEC was truly sold out were North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Then there were about 5-6 other teams with 75-85% capacity (average) and it drops off for the rest. Losing 1/3 of those big draw teams will hurt. The state of Minnesota has a pretty die hard fan base and those butts will fill seats regularly but its the fringe tickets, the fairweather fans who show up to be seen versus really caring about the team, those are the ones that will make the immediate difference. They too buy tickets, concessions, apparel, chuck-a-pucks and teddy-bear tosses and so on and so forth. And if that drop is big enough, it will set many teams back. Then without regular team sucess it could spiral downward with even the diehards not showing up for every game. People's exhibit A: The Minnesota Wild (prior to this season) had a few bad seasons in a row and couldn't even sell out the X. The Minnesota freakin Wild who are in the state of freakin hockey, lol, i hear that waaaaay too much. That was a BIG deal. Translate that to small midwestern colleges who don't have the support of a big time conference and it doesn't look all that good. I liken it to a relationship similar to the B1G and say the Big East in basketball. Big East has some premier schools but also has plenty more that are too inconsistent or irrelevant enough to make a splash. Occasionally they have a few big years in a row but then they drop right back out of the spotlight and quickly. This would be how the NCHC could play out (in my head) if they don't make the extra effort.

The NCHC has a few other things going for it though. They dropped Alaska, Bemidji, MTU and Mankato. This inherently makes the conference stronger because those teams generally didn't have enough steam to make a true run at much of anything. Less travel and expense to Alaska is always good. :) I think my main point is, they will definitely start off strong but can they maintain it with this bit of an uphill battle they face now so that in 10 years they can stay ahead of the B1G? It's going to be tough. They will be up there but I think they will lose a little steam, unless they can remain relevant and regularly bring more than one to the postseason without one and done efforts.

2. That is all well and good and I agree, right now that prospect will choose ND. Who wouldn't? The history they have there is great. But I think a more pertinent example is to say what about Penn State versus Denver, SCSU, CC, Western Michigan, Omaha? The lesser-knowns? They all have some things to pull the recruit away, big name coaches, awesome facility renovations, moderately good history. Is that enough to pull the kid away from being on weekly televised games (family can watch and great exposure), schools with big enough budgets to potentially start going all "Pro Combat/weekly uniform change/Oregon style" (this is on the doorstep, i feel it), playing against the likes of Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan and Michigan State week in and week out, other D1 sports to attend, big awesome college campuses, "supposedly bigger and better parties and coeds" (LOL) and so on and so forth? That pulls a pretty big swing towards B1G schools. The B1G will/should eventually have far more clout in 5 or 10 years and I have a hard time seeing the NCHC staying ahead of that.

History can only go so far. Does it mean it won't happen? No, the B1G has better means to land better names compared to pretty much all NCHC schools. Does it mean it will happen? No, just because B1G dominates in some sports doesn't mean it will in all. But I hope the NCHC can stay relevant, if not premier. After watching so many SCSU seasons with decent efforts and no postseason return, it was nice to see the team finally break out and make a run last year. And that will be just the thing that can help the conference stay up there.

 
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According to this article, the NHL really wants to go to 32 teams.

If they do add a team in Seattle, what is the next location for the 32nd team?

Would Omaha be a legit candidate? Las Vegas with their new arena? Salt Lake City?

 
GSG5545 said:
According to this article, the NHL really wants to go to 32 teams.

If they do add a team in Seattle, what is the next location for the 32nd team?

Would Omaha be a legit candidate? Las Vegas with their new arena? Salt Lake City?
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I'm not sure Las Vegas will be a destination for a pro team of any major sport any time soon

 
StPaulHusker said:
GSG5545 said:
According to this article, the NHL really wants to go to 32 teams.

If they do add a team in Seattle, what is the next location for the 32nd team?

Would Omaha be a legit candidate? Las Vegas with their new arena? Salt Lake City?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure Las Vegas will be a destination for a pro team of any major sport any time soon
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Yeah, I was just throwing out "western" cities.

Maybe Portland, OKC, or another California city?

 
icedavis said:
walksalone said:
icedavis said:
walksalone said:
For my dollar, the WCHA is the best conference in college hockey. They've won 36 national titles, had 28 national title runner ups, and about 8 or 9 years ago, the last four teams in the Frozen Four, were all WCHA teams...

As for the B1G becoming a power hockey conference, I'm going to say no. The newly formed NCHC (National Collegiate Hockey Conference) will have my Sioux, Denver, Colorado College, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, Neb-Omaha, and Miami, which still makes them a stud conference. Until everyone else gets up to speed in the B1G, you're going to see Minnesota and Wisconsin winning the conference title every year, for a long time to come...
Click to expand...
I think we all can agree it will take time for the B1G to get up to speed but the questions was not the historically best conference but in 10 years will the B1G be the best? To which I think we all can agree, as a 6 team conference with 4 of the 6 as perennial big hitters (and the other two being decent themselves) there could be arguments of "look at the parity top to bottom and the percentage of winners and all that" but that 6 team roster will be a knock as well because its only 6 teams and leaves the door open for more cake non-conference games (not necessarily guaranteed) and inflated records. But if even a handfuld of other B1G schools get their act/teams together a la Penn State, the B1G could be a legitimate contender for that title.

The new NCHC and WCHA schools are going to hurt a bit as a result of losing the larger TV markets, the big name schools and the money all that brings in. Does that necessarily mean they will all get worse and lose a ton of cred? No, they have their history of relevant success working in their favor, some have new or renovated facilities and some have a stranglehold on their respective markets (the Colorado schools). That could be enough to keep them up there but not generally enough. Also, just like football and basketball, tv is a big player in many aspects including recruiting. I am not sure the likes of Duluth and North Dakota can carry those other NCHC teams and keep them in the "premier" category without some major steps up in relevance/winning/tradition/history from the other schools but who knows. St. Cloud has seen steady growth and had a great run last season that could lead to more. Omaha has a legend for a coach who can do big things. Miami, CC and Denver have been solid but with Gwoz out at Denver, that leaves their near future a bit in limbo. You can't argue against the fact that schools apart of a major conference have far greater advantages than schools in not as large conferences. Not to mention the fact that the names in the B1G are already some of the "premier" NCAA hockey schools. So by making this conference they already inherit a bunch of cred just by who they are and the conference they belong to.

If we are projecting today's conferences, 10 years from now...I would say probably the top three would be Hockey East, NCHC and B1G, in any order and the B1Gs fate depends entirely on adding member schools and scheduling. The success of the NCHC will hinge on how they can rebound and survive/thrive without relying so heavily on the likes of the Badgers/Gophers. With Hockey East's mid/low tier teams being inconsistent year to year, that leaves the door open for the B1G definitely, with plenty of potential, to be the premier hockey conference.
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1. I'll respectfully disagree with you. B1G will be a decent hockey conference, but it will be well behind Hockey East and the NCHC. The NCHC isn't going to be hurt much, at if all with losing TV revenue. They were good without it, and those people that follow their hockey closely, will know the difference.

2. If a stud prospect is given the chance between choosing say Penn St or North Dakota, he's going to Grand Forks. Minnesota and Wisconsin will terrorize the B1G for many, many years, but after that you are going to see a significant drop off. Denver is going to remain solid, even without Gwoz, because a lot of folks were worried about No Dak after they lost Blais, but Hakstol has shown they're just fine. Just because they won't have their own network, that doesn't carry a lot of weight in college hockey.

I'd bet you many beers, 10 years from now, the NCHC (or what ever they'll end up being called) will have twice as many teams going to the frozen four than the B1G will.
Click to expand...
Understood. I hear ya.

1. It extends far beyond just tv revenues though. TV was probably not a good example because of how few WCHA games were on regional, let alone national TV. Ticket sales will drop for most NCHC schools quite a bit. I will use my alma mater St. Cloud as an example. The only games the NHEC was truly sold out were North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Then there were about 5-6 other teams with 75-85% capacity (average) and it drops off for the rest. Losing 1/3 of those big draw teams will hurt. The state of Minnesota has a pretty die hard fan base and those butts will fill seats regularly but its the fringe tickets, the fairweather fans who show up to be seen versus really caring about the team, those are the ones that will make the immediate difference. They too buy tickets, concessions, apparel, chuck-a-pucks and teddy-bear tosses and so on and so forth. And if that drop is big enough, it will set many teams back. Then without regular team sucess it could spiral downward with even the diehards not showing up for every game. People's exhibit A: The Minnesota Wild (prior to this season) had a few bad seasons in a row and couldn't even sell out the X. The Minnesota freakin Wild who are in the state of freakin hockey, lol, i hear that waaaaay too much. That was a BIG deal. Translate that to small midwestern colleges who don't have the support of a big time conference and it doesn't look all that good. I liken it to a relationship similar to the B1G and say the Big East in basketball. Big East has some premier schools but also has plenty more that are too inconsistent or irrelevant enough to make a splash. Occasionally they have a few big years in a row but then they drop right back out of the spotlight and quickly. This would be how the NCHC could play out (in my head) if they don't make the extra effort.

The NCHC has a few other things going for it though. They dropped Alaska, Bemidji, MTU and Mankato. This inherently makes the conference stronger because those teams generally didn't have enough steam to make a true run at much of anything. Less travel and expense to Alaska is always good. :) I think my main point is, they will definitely start off strong but can they maintain it with this bit of an uphill battle they face now so that in 10 years they can stay ahead of the B1G? It's going to be tough. They will be up there but I think they will lose a little steam, unless they can remain relevant and regularly bring more than one to the postseason without one and done efforts.

2. That is all well and good and I agree, right now that prospect will choose ND. Who wouldn't? The history they have there is great. But I think a more pertinent example is to say what about Penn State versus Denver, SCSU, CC, Western Michigan, Omaha? The lesser-knowns? They all have some things to pull the recruit away, big name coaches, awesome facility renovations, moderately good history. Is that enough to pull the kid away from being on weekly televised games (family can watch and great exposure), schools with big enough budgets to potentially start going all "Pro Combat/weekly uniform change/Oregon style" (this is on the doorstep, i feel it), playing against the likes of Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan and Michigan State week in and week out, other D1 sports to attend, big awesome college campuses, "supposedly bigger and better parties and coeds" (LOL) and so on and so forth? That pulls a pretty big swing towards B1G schools. The B1G will/should eventually have far more clout in 5 or 10 years and I have a hard time seeing the NCHC staying ahead of that.

History can only go so far. Does it mean it won't happen? No, the B1G has better means to land better names compared to pretty much all NCHC schools. Does it mean it will happen? No, just because B1G dominates in some sports doesn't mean it will in all. But I hope the NCHC can stay relevant, if not premier. After watching so many SCSU seasons with decent efforts and no postseason return, it was nice to see the team finally break out and make a run last year. And that will be just the thing that can help the conference stay up there.
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I was actually able to find Sioux games at least every other week through my cable provider, and I live in NJ. The Sioux are one of the few Universities that have their own “network”. I don’t think the NCHC are going to sit there and see that the B1G have their own network, and not do anything about it. I would imagine it won’t have the “clout” of the B1G, but they won’t be so far behind as you might think.

By dropping the teams you mentioned, that was one of the best things that could have happened to the artist formerly known as the WCHA. You’re cutting away bad teams, unnecessary travel, and you’ll have a best “product” on the ice, outside of maybe Hockey East.

Hockey kids are a different breed than kids that play football and basketball. Ask a kid, would he rather go to Penn St, Northwestern, or Illinios, have the “Pro Combat/weekly uniform change/Oregon style” and keep getting your a$$ handed to you by Wisky and Minnesota every week, or go to a team that’s going to be competitive, have a realistic shot at the tournament every year, and a shot to maybe play at the next level..

 
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