OK sure, I'll be the first....

[knapplc]

Armstrong played a great game against an overmatched opponent. It was about as good or even a little better as Martinez' first game against Western Kentucky. Both were Redshirt Freshmen, both played against very weak competition.

Martinez ran for a 46 yard TD the first time he ever carried the ball. Ended the day with 127 yards rushing (led the team) and two TDs. Went 9/15/0 passing with 136 yards and no TDs.

Armstrong ran for ran for 38 yards, and threw for 169 yards on 12/15 passing, and threw for a TD (I thought he threw two TDs? Stats say otherwise)

Both had good first games. Let's hope Armstrong continues developing and gets better every day (day by day!). I have a lot more confidence in our backup situation now than I did two weeks ago.

There becomes a point Knapp where your not talking about just a backup situation. I think it's already reached that point. You with your obvious man crush in Taylor probably don't feel that way. But I remind all of you here to not only consider what is "fair" to Taylor, but what is "fair" to this TEAM.

The players that give this Husker team the best chance to win should be on the field. Taylor's not the only senior trying to leave a legacy here.

I have no more of a, to use your words, "man crush" on Taylor Martinez than I do on Tommy Armstrong or Ron Kellogg three eyes.

I never understood why people pick certain players on the team to like more than others. They're all Huskers. If Tommy starts the rest of the year I'm gonna cheer for him exactly the same as I would for RKIII or Martinez.

To the point of the post you quoted, everyone and their brother were anointing Martinez the next Heisman contender after his first couple of games in 2010. He put up some pretty good numbers against relatively weak competition.

How'd that Heisman talk turn out for Taylor?

I don't think it should be too controversial to point out that Armstrong's great game came against a D1AA school. Not sure why you'd not like to hear that, especially after the last redshirt freshman we started didn't pan out as everyone hoped.

 

[The Dude]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

 

[Bowfin]

What happens if when they have to face real competition, they are an abject failure?

That's not even a question to debate, since you have provided a scenario that leads to only the answer you want to hear.

Here, let me do that for YOU:

"What if we keep Martinez at starter, but he refuses to run and his passing mechanics regress to throwing off his back foot again while dropping his shoulder, and he starts locking onto receivers again while losing his cool in the pocket and refuses to pitch the ball to the I-back on options until they are pinned up against the sideline and he starts fumbling twice as much as he does now? Are you willing to keep Martinez as quarterback over the other two even if he singelhandedly loses EVERY game left in the season?

 

[The Dude]

What happens if when they have to face real competition, they are an abject failure?

That's not even a question to debate, since you have provided a scenario that leads to only the answer you want to hear.

Here, let me do that for YOU:

"What if we keep Martinez at starter, but he refuses to run and his passing mechanics regress to throwing off his back foot again while dropping his shoulder, and he starts locking onto receivers again while losing his cool in the pocket and refuses to pitch the ball to the I-back on options until they are pinned up against the sideline and he starts fumbling twice as much as he does now? Are you willing to keep Martinez as quarterback if he loses EVERY game left in the season?

Actually it seems like a lot of people would still prefer to keep Martinez in there. Bo included.

 

[knapplc]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

Except for the 15 completions of 15 or more yards out of his total of 53 completions on the year, I totally buy that.

 

[VectorVictor]

How'd that Heisman talk turn out for Taylor?

Considering how Suh got screwed out of the Heisman, I'm shocked we still even give two s***s about it around these parts.

 

[The Dude]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

Except for the 15 completions of 15 or more yards out of his total of 53 completions on the year, I totally buy that.

Exactly, he's only thrown the ball down field a few times a game.

 

[jmfb]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

Except for the 15 completions of 15 or more yards out of his total of 53 completions on the year, I totally buy that.

This does a nice job of breaking down what passes have really been completed vs the 1-4 yard pass that the WR turns into a 20 yard play:

http://www.footballs...in-matt-barkley

When you look into the details here, you can see that Martinez is nearly a complete fail on passes that are thrown 15-19 yards, the completion rate is just 10% and from 20-24 yards it is 16.7%

Those numbers are really bad by any legitimate standard

 

[knapplc]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

Except for the 15 completions of 15 or more yards out of his total of 53 completions on the year, I totally buy that.

This does a nice job of breaking down what passes have really been completed vs the 1-4 yard pass that the WR turns into a 20 yard play:

http://www.footballs...in-matt-barkley

When you look into the details here, you can see that Martinez is nearly a complete fail on passes that are thrown 15-19 yards, the completion rate is just 10% and from 20-24 yards it is 16.7%

Those numbers are really bad by any legitimate standard

But.... according to their numbers, Taylor's "adjusted completion percentage" for last year (the year this measures) was 65.1%. That's actually better than his real completion percentage of 61.9%.

So he's terrible at 15-19 yard passes in 2012. I'd say we shouldn't have him throw those passes in 2012. Sounds like a good plan.

 

[jmfb]

and btw, for all the flack Taylor catches regarding his passing... He's currently 26th in the nation in pass efficiency - 2 spots ahead of Brett Smith.

Considering he's been basically restricted to throwing "high percentage" passes, I'm surprised he's not higher than 26th.

Except for the 15 completions of 15 or more yards out of his total of 53 completions on the year, I totally buy that.

This does a nice job of breaking down what passes have really been completed vs the 1-4 yard pass that the WR turns into a 20 yard play:

http://www.footballs...in-matt-barkley

When you look into the details here, you can see that Martinez is nearly a complete fail on passes that are thrown 15-19 yards, the completion rate is just 10% and from 20-24 yards it is 16.7%

Those numbers are really bad by any legitimate standard

But.... according to their numbers, Taylor's "adjusted completion percentage" for last year (the year this measures) was 65.1%. That's actually better than his real completion percentage of 61.9%.

So he's terrible at 15-19 yard passes in 2012. I'd say we shouldn't have him throw those passes in 2012. Sounds like a good plan.

Actually Martinez is at the absolute bottom for ANY pass greater than 15 yards. The stats clearly show- he is at or near the absolute bottom when compared to other DI QBS for throwing ANY Pass greater than 15 yards.

If Im a defensive coordinator, that is the pass Im going to have him throw, the pass that he has a 10- 16.7% chance of completing

Out of 43 QBs rated, he was 43rd ranked at passes of 15-19 yards and 41st out of 43 at passes of 20+ yards, not so good. He didnt complete any throws past 24 yards. So for 15 yards plus Martinez has a 1 in 6 to 1 in 10 chance at a completion, those numbers are very revealing IMO. I dont like our chances when teams scheme to take away the short dink and dunk stuff. OR they just allow that stuff and play for the inevitable mistake. Most teams cant consistently dink and dunk down the field without a turnover, sack or big penalty to take them out of a drive, sound familiar? If you dink and dunk you better be about perfect, throw the ball away, not take negative yardage plays, which NU/Matrinez doesnt do very well at all.

DCs are much smarter than me, Im sure they have that one pegged

 

[knapplc]

Even if their numbers are accurate (and I'd like to check them when I have the time)... so?

Martinez isn't a great passer. Nobody here is making that claim. He throws a decent long ball, but his forte is the shorter pass. Teams win championships with a short passing game. Who cares if he's not proficient at throwing passes past 15 yards last year?

 

[knapplc]

Did anyone else notice Armstrong down the field seeking out guys to block on --that one run-- ? I'd specify but I don't have the game in front of me, and I can't even remember the quarter or the play. But it stuck out as unusual that the QB was out there doing that. Old-school baller mentality right there.

 

[jmfb]

Even if their numbers are accurate (and I'd like to check them when I have the time)... so?

Martinez isn't a great passer. Nobody here is making that claim. He throws a decent long ball, but his forte is the shorter pass. Teams win championships with a short passing game. Who cares if he's not proficient at throwing passes past 15 yards last year?

You dont win championships when the DC knows you have less than 1 in 6 to 1 in 10 chance of completing a pass greater than 15 yards in the air

Look at Alabama and Oregons numbers- Championship level teams and compare their numbers to ours

That MAY be why some of the better teams just shut us down cold- they either dont bother covering the deep pass or they just let us self destruct trying to be perfect dinking and dunking ourselves down the field.

THIS TEAM with Martinez at the helm cant win dinking and dunking- too many sacks, fumbles, penalties to make that work.

So Martinez isnt a great passer, who cares?

Is he a great runner this year?

What if he is 80% healthy and isnt running well or aggressively (2013 season so far)

If he's admittadly not a good passer and really has lost a lot of that straight ahead speed and whatever mobility he did have. Add in his consistent fumble problems and melt downs in big games, not a whole lot of pluses left.

Who cares if he cant complete many passes past 15 yards?

DCs know that TM cant consistently threaten the entire field, they scheme to stop it.

 

[ADS]

Did anyone else notice Armstrong down the field seeking out guys to block on --that one run-- ? I'd specify but I don't have the game in front of me, and I can't even remember the quarter or the play. But it stuck out as unusual that the QB was out there doing that. Old-school baller mentality right there.

Ameer Abdullah's first run, where he cut back across the line and gained about 15 yards? I remember him running with Abdullah trying to block on that particular play.

 

[knapplc]

Even if their numbers are accurate (and I'd like to check them when I have the time)... so?

Martinez isn't a great passer. Nobody here is making that claim. He throws a decent long ball, but his forte is the shorter pass. Teams win championships with a short passing game. Who cares if he's not proficient at throwing passes past 15 yards last year?

You dont win championships when the DC knows you have less than 1 in 6 to 1 in 10 chance of completing a pass greater than 15 yards in the air

Look at Alabama and Oregons numbers- Championship level teams and compare their numbers to ours

That MAY be why some of the better teams just shut us down cold- they either dont bother covering the deep pass or they just let us self destruct trying to be perfect dinking and dunking ourselves down the field.

THIS TEAM with Martinez at the helm cant win dinking and dunking- too many sacks, fumbles, penalties to make that work.

So Martinez isnt a great passer, who cares?

Is he a great runner this year?

What if he is 80% healthy and isnt running well or aggressively (2013 season so far)

If he's admittadly not a good passer and really has lost a lot of that straight ahead speed and whatever mobility he did have. Add in his consistent fumble problems and melt downs in big games, not a whole lot of pluses left.

Who cares if he cant complete many passes past 15 yards?

DCs know that TM cant consistently threaten the entire field, they scheme to stop it.

You're arguing against points I'm not making. You really need to direct this at someone else.