Sweep Read, Power Read, Jet Read

[Hayseed]

This is a great thread ,jmfb. The problem with all these plays is that they work well against weak defenses but the good defenses are 3 yards into the backfield creating havoc before the play has a chance to develop. I do like the straight sweep read better than the zone read though. It makes more sense to have blockers pull and go right to work instead of dancing around and it still gives the qb the option of a counter if the D overplays it. Throw in some power runs straight up the middle and the D has a lot to worry about.

 

[EZ-E]

This is a great thread ,jmfb. The problem with all these plays is that they work well against weak defenses but the good defenses are 3 yards into the backfield creating havoc before the play has a chance to develop. I do like the straight sweep read better than the zone read though. It makes more sense to have blockers pull and go right to work instead of dancing around and it still gives the qb the option of a counter if the D overplays it. Throw in some power runs straight up the middle and the D has a lot to worry about.

Oregon has played some talented defenses. Hasn't hampered them much.

 

[shyndy]

I see what you're saying here jmfb (and thanks muchly for this post and the other about the 10 personnel package), but I don't understand what changed in the Zone "Read" game from Taylor's freshman year to this year. We annihilated Kansas State with the Zone Read, whether they were reading the DE or the DT, and both Helu and Martinez had big games. Happy Birthday, Coach Snyder!

Unless I was imagining things, Taylor seemed to be making an actual read in that game, and doing it quite well. He kept the ball in the RB's gut until the read defender committed and made the correct call, and either he or the RB took off.

That's the last time I can think of where I thought Taylor was being allowed to make an actual read, instead of having pre-planned keeps/gives. And that makes no sense to me.

I grasp the idea of blocking a certain way for a certain play, but whatever the reason Beck's doing the "read" package in a predetermined way, it's not nearly as effective today as it was when there was more of a true read.

Is this just Beck being Beck? Or did Taylor suddenly get dumber at making that read?

That isnt what I said

I didnt see the DT read in practice until his Soph year and have only seen it a couple of times in games since then, BEck talked about it at his clinic

They have true reads, TM often times gets them wrong. One of my guys is friends with Joe Ganz, Ganz said as a Frosh and Soph, he was getting about 1/2 his reads correct

But when he did, watch out, huge play.

Yes against KSU he was about perfect, I was there- fun game

They have true reads AND they have designed gives/keeps. On the designated plays, Maybe they just got tired of the wrong reads? Or fumbles?

In any event on any of those sweep read, power read and zone read or even the designated plays, the QB has to be a legit run threat

If he isnt the offense doesnt go

I don't know about using the read off the DT with Tmart but I know it was used with Lee in the champ game against texas, so if it really wasn't used the first year he played they must not have felt comfortable with it but who knows it could have to do with what defenses are doing too.

 

[EZ-E]

Think he was reading a DT on this play. UCLA is in a 3-4.

 

[Mavric]

The sweep"read" where Amani got his Safety- we were in trips to that side and Carter was in real tight- to seal off that LB if I saw it right

Illinois didn't pick up on any tell on the safety. There was room to run if Carter got any sort of block.

 

[BigRedBuster]

My biggest problem with these plays is that most of the time the don't have a third option that makes the defense defend the outside.

I would like this run more out of the two back set. One back would be the hand off/fake. The other would come behind the qb and then they would run a more traditional type option play as him as the pitch option to the outside.

This would stress the defense enough more that it would produce some good yardage.

If the qb makes the wrong read they can pitch it.

 

[I am I]

Too many runs head into traffic for me to believe there are a large amount of actual reads. The more logical answer is they're predetermined and they're being tipped off somehow.

So is TM one of the absolute WORST readers out there or are some of those "reads" predetermined and optimized for the ball carrier

It's a combination of the 2, no QB can be that awful on some of those obvious keeps or gives

Ive watched a few away games at my home- and DVRd them- it is the case

Im too busy working on projects and helping others to break down every NU film

Much easier ways of getting that info- AND when you are watching the game- pretty much every play is shown again on the big screen

Film work is so monotonous

Man I'm not trying to be a d!(k at all, but you keep saying to us "watch the film". Then say about yourself "I don't have time to watch film--but I do watch the replays at games on a jumbotron". (??!!??)

Then you say watching film is "monotonous"???

Watching film the right way and telling us how things are run and why? Yet saying how monotonous it is? I just don't see where you're coming from.

Even successful PRO QBs talk about how they "learned how to watch film" once they turned pro. You don't just "watch it". You have to know about 20 different things per play to actually LEARN anything from it. And then watch it over and over and over and over. And over. With the knowledge of what your trying to glean from it and how it affects your scheme.

I'm sorry, unless you are watching film like a coach watches film, or actually KNOW someone who can tell you when it's a called give or true option, you CANNOT possibly say that you've got a handle on what our calls are and when it's a called give or option.

Everything else about power football and zone v power reads is pretty good and informative, I think talyor does a pretty good job of running the offense. He is just a turnover machine tho.

 

[EZ-E]

Too many runs head into traffic for me to believe there are a large amount of actual reads. The more logical answer is they're predetermined and they're being tipped off somehow.

So is TM one of the absolute WORST readers out there or are some of those "reads" predetermined and optimized for the ball carrier

It's a combination of the 2, no QB can be that awful on some of those obvious keeps or gives

Ive watched a few away games at my home- and DVRd them- it is the case

Im too busy working on projects and helping others to break down every NU film

Much easier ways of getting that info- AND when you are watching the game- pretty much every play is shown again on the big screen

Film work is so monotonous

Man I'm not trying to be a d!(k at all, but you keep saying to us "watch the film". Then say about yourself "I don't have time to watch film--but I do watch the replays at games on a jumbotron". (??!!??)

Then you say watching film is "monotonous"???

Watching film the right way and telling us how things are run and why? Yet saying how monotonous it is? I just don't see where you're coming from.

Even successful PRO QBs talk about how they "learned how to watch film" once they turned pro. You don't just "watch it". You have to know about 20 different things per play to actually LEARN anything from it. And then watch it over and over and over and over. And over. With the knowledge of what your trying to glean from it and how it affects your scheme.

I'm sorry, unless you are watching film like a coach watches film, or actually KNOW someone who can tell you when it's a called give or true option, you CANNOT possibly say that you've got a handle on what our calls are and when it's a called give or option.

Everything else about power football and zone v power reads is pretty good and informative, I think talyor does a pretty good job of running the offense. He is just a turnover machine tho.

He does.

Watch the way a play is blocked will be a tell.

 

[Mavric]

Too many runs head into traffic for me to believe there are a large amount of actual reads. The more logical answer is they're predetermined and they're being tipped off somehow.

So is TM one of the absolute WORST readers out there or are some of those "reads" predetermined and optimized for the ball carrier

It's a combination of the 2, no QB can be that awful on some of those obvious keeps or gives

Ive watched a few away games at my home- and DVRd them- it is the case

Im too busy working on projects and helping others to break down every NU film

Much easier ways of getting that info- AND when you are watching the game- pretty much every play is shown again on the big screen

Film work is so monotonous

Man I'm not trying to be a d!(k at all, but you keep saying to us "watch the film". Then say about yourself "I don't have time to watch film--but I do watch the replays at games on a jumbotron". (??!!??)

Then you say watching film is "monotonous"???

Watching film the right way and telling us how things are run and why? Yet saying how monotonous it is? I just don't see where you're coming from.

Even successful PRO QBs talk about how they "learned how to watch film" once they turned pro. You don't just "watch it". You have to know about 20 different things per play to actually LEARN anything from it. And then watch it over and over and over and over. And over. With the knowledge of what your trying to glean from it and how it affects your scheme.

I'm sorry, unless you are watching film like a coach watches film, or actually KNOW someone who can tell you when it's a called give or true option, you CANNOT possibly say that you've got a handle on what our calls are and when it's a called give or option.

Everything else about power football and zone v power reads is pretty good and informative, I think talyor does a pretty good job of running the offense. He is just a turnover machine tho.

+1

Not that you can't have good points, but I'll take my own film study over what someone supposedly heard from someone who supposedly works with Joe Ganz.

 

[Mavric]

Obviously there are different play calls. Some are designed one way, some another way. But I've always been impressed at how well Martinez reads the key and how long he can leave the ball in the backs belly before he pulls it. About the only time I've ever noticed him read a play wrong is when we are down late and he tries to take over the game himself, and I can usually see that coming before the ball is snapped.

The caveat is that was all before this year. I think it has been pretty obvious that Martinez was not going to run unless absolutely necessary. Especially in the SMiss game there were times where we ran counter-trey action - pulling both the backside guard and tackle - to lead for Martinez going one way and he gave the ball to the back going the other way. After that game, I was convinced that he was under strict instructions not to run unless absolutely necessary, thinking they were trying to limit his hits to be fresh for UCLA and down the stretch. After what we've found out since then, perhaps he was injured from the start. Either way, giving the ball when he should have kept it this year doesn't appear to have anything to do with reading a play wrong. It has everything to do with trying to prevent or heal from injury.

If you can find me some video prior to this year of many times when he's read it wrong, I'd be happy to look. ("Many" because I'm sure there are some but considering how many times we've run that play over the last three years, for him to be reading it wrong half the time there should be plenty of examples out there.) Until then, I think you're making too much of a comment that may or may not have even happened and, if it did, would be entirely possible that it was meant as a joke or clearly and exaggeration.

 

[I am I]

Look, if jmfb has the knowledge and knows some peeps--good for him and I like these threads WAY better than bash Bo for not playing CJax, rabble rabble!

So thanks for starting it and giving us a chance to discuss it.

If more fans could actually watch film and know what the hell they're really looking at, maybe then we could be called the greatest and most knowledgeable in the multiverse.

 

[jmfb]

Too many runs head into traffic for me to believe there are a large amount of actual reads. The more logical answer is they're predetermined and they're being tipped off somehow.

So is TM one of the absolute WORST readers out there or are some of those "reads" predetermined and optimized for the ball carrier

It's a combination of the 2, no QB can be that awful on some of those obvious keeps or gives

Ive watched a few away games at my home- and DVRd them- it is the case

Im too busy working on projects and helping others to break down every NU film

Much easier ways of getting that info- AND when you are watching the game- pretty much every play is shown again on the big screen

Film work is so monotonous

Man I'm not trying to be a d!(k at all, but you keep saying to us "watch the film". Then say about yourself "I don't have time to watch film--but I do watch the replays at games on a jumbotron". (??!!??)

Then you say watching film is "monotonous"???

Watching film the right way and telling us how things are run and why? Yet saying how monotonous it is? I just don't see where you're coming from.

Even successful PRO QBs talk about how they "learned how to watch film" once they turned pro. You don't just "watch it". You have to know about 20 different things per play to actually LEARN anything from it. And then watch it over and over and over and over. And over. With the knowledge of what your trying to glean from it and how it affects your scheme.

I'm sorry, unless you are watching film like a coach watches film, or actually KNOW someone who can tell you when it's a called give or true option, you CANNOT possibly say that you've got a handle on what our calls are and when it's a called give or option.

Everything else about power football and zone v power reads is pretty good and informative, I think talyor does a pretty good job of running the offense. He is just a turnover machine tho.

+1

Not that you can't have good points, but I'll take my own film study over what someone supposedly heard from someone who supposedly works with Joe Ganz.

Ok- so most of the guys who post dont even know we ran a lot of the plays or the defense I pointed out and many of them watch film. If you dont know what to look for, you have to spend a bunch of time watching film

I can do that by watching the game AND replays- it's what I do for a living

Ive also run a few away games on DVR. I dont have to watch every game for 4-5 hours to get what NU does and doesnt do. Ive seen it on the few games Ive DVrd this year and last. I couldnt attend one of the home games this year due to commitment- I watched the DVR. THEN when a play is run I recognize the play in real time- on the replay I only have to look for 1-2 things.

AND IVE GONE TO THE CLINICS - here and away= Ive heard it from the horses mouth and gone to some practices, taking a few notes there and understanding conceptually why they do what they do- AND working with a coach who got a bunch of this offense with direct help from the NU staff- hand held etc. Ive also studied quite a bit on parallel offenses-

I watch 100s of hours of film every month- for work, I dont have to watch 100s of hours of film every month of NU film to know what they do

It isnt that hard if you know what you are doing

Its not just wacthing film, its knowing the offense, its knowing modern offensive concepts/schemes and knowing what to look for

I dont care if an uninformed person with their mind made up and an agenda agrees with me or not, Im not going to invest time finding them film clips. I could care less what silly people think about me or my opinions, ( taking it to the extreme would I care what Miley Cyrus or Emminen think about me? I hope they dont like me CGRA) this is meant for the open minded to inform and educate them

I know what I know based on my knowledge, observations, straight from the NU coaches via clinics, practices, from guys taught by the NU coaches and yes 1 inside contact that went away in 2011

One of the players- former player of mine will be over for dinner this week- but I really dont ever talk about inside team stuff with them, for me that's off limits. We will talk a few conceptual xs and os maybe. Mostly just lifting them up and listening to them- offering advice if asked (non football)

The JG comment was not a joke or exaggeration, it was done over the shoulder of JG while he was doing Hudl analysis of the game at home, pen and paper in hand. Very frustrated guys at that point in time, shaking heads, trying to figure out a solution. It was the fall and I cant remember which game it was after- it was chilly so probably later October 2011. I cant disclose how I know 100% this is true without outing the person, it is factual, reliable, not some idle fan gossip.

Open minded people can draw their own conclusions

You can tell if a play is a poor read or a predtermined optimized play by the WAY IT IS BLOCKED

Quick shout out to EZE- he spotted a couple of really nice pickups on defense. Probably because he studied some of the Defensive Concepts and about Bos defense prior to delving into the film. Some of the offensive ones are kind of hard to pick up unless you know the offense and really pay attention to detail.( not tying to lessen what EZE picked up, that was a good one, spot on)

 

[EZ-E]

Might be wrong, but Ameer's run at the 30sec mark isn't a read at all. It is blocked for Ameer to keep the football. It appears Tommy's job on that one is to fake that he's keeping it to keep the LBs honest. Notice the pulling guard and the backside tackle blocking the DE.

First TD for Ameer, Tommy is reading the OLB and its a straight inside zone read. Ameer's alignment gives it away. This is a play straight from Oregon's playbook.

2:55 is straight out of Oregon's playbook as well. Notice the LBs read that it appears we are going to run the Inside Zone Read and they use the OL's clues to help them make their reads. OL takes a kick-out step to gain the outside leverage. Ameer gets the ball and makes one cut back the opposite way. Key block by Cethan Carter there that sprung Ameer free.

Oregon, like us a lot of times telegraphs what type of play they are going to run pre-snap. Oregon also has a lot of plays go for negitive yardage as well because of this. However it helps more than it hurts. Especially with the right play-calls.

 

[jmfb]

Oregon also gets set quickly and doesnt allow you to get the matches YOU want defensively- they motion more than we do too

Looks like you are right on Ameers run, looks like exact same play/Alignment Imani got the safety on, Im pretty sure of that one. Someone that has the film can check- only difference is the slot receiver makes his block on Ameers run. Yes the backside LB hesitates a bit. In both cases is looked like it was a give all the way- part of that goes to scouting as well. If it was maximized for the keep the backside LB would have been blocked by alignment or change in blocking assignment.

Look at the 1:00 mark, there is the defense you were talking about 10 personnel with ZOne read, cant defend that play the way we are aligned, impossible.

On that Option TD at 2:00 man LOOK AT COTTON sprinting downfield to make a downfield block- what aggression and speed for a big kid. For those that crticized him getting a scholly shame on you, wow.Lucky to have him

 

[BigRedBuster]

Look at the 1:00 mark, there is the defense you were talking about 10 personnel with ZOne read, cant defend that play the way we are aligned, impossible.

On that Option TD at 2:00 man LOOK AT COTTON sprinting downfield to make a downfield block- what aggression and speed for a big kid. Fot those that crticized him getting a scholly shame on you, wow.Lucky to have him

The play at 1:00 is something that I have harped on a lot. So many of the long outside runs against us are when we are in an alignment where there isn't anyone in outside containment or the DE makes an initial move that prevents him from having any type of outside containment. The RB gets outside and takes off.

The play at 2:00 is really impressive with the number of linemen that are down field with him.