Bo's Complicated Defense

Bo always talks about getting guys that fit into his scheme but yet they don't understand it to the fullest. My question is; Do you just recruit the best athletes period and adjust your scheme or continue recruiting the kids that you think will fit your scheme and adjust them? This could be said for the offense as well.

 
Stumpy1 said:
Bo always talks about getting guys that fit into his scheme but yet they don't understand it to the fullest. My question is; Do you just recruit the best athletes period and adjust your scheme or continue recruiting the kids that you think will fit your scheme and adjust them? This could be said for the offense as well.
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I don't think it is an either-or deal. I think it needs to be sort of both. Recruit the best athletes for your system but then adjust the system as needed to make it effective. You can change who you are recruiting but there are no guarantees on exactly who you will get or how well they will pan out. The one thing that is never out of your control is how you use what you've got. The best coaches....check that....the most effective coaches will adjust whatever is needed to get the desired result. This kind of goes back to the OP's square peg in a round hole. You have to either make the peg round or the hole square. Bo may very well be some type of savant or defensive guru but there are noticeable times when required adjustments are not made, be they system adjustments or in game adjustments. Once recruiting is over and you are "in season" there really is no choice to make other than make it work the best you can, by any means possible.

 
1995 Redux said:
Valentine looks to be that guy weve lacked. I presume next year he comes in looking jacked with a whole offseason of conditioning. Add a touch of speed to that monster and we could be looking at an anchor.
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Maybe if we alter our S&C program... We went from WAY ahead to probably behind everyone else that is of consequence.

Further, people keep harping on Pelini and his scheme. This scheme is not the same as it was in 2009 or 2010. They have made adjustments to fit the players that they have. They obviously aren't running a full playbook playing 12 freshman/sophomores in the 2 deep. Still think they make a pretty significant jump here pretty soon, and then next season will be MUCH better defensively.

 
EZ-E said:
Enhance89 said:
From my perspective, you alter the scheme to fit the players you have, not the players you have to fit your scheme. The latter spells disaster because you may be asking guys to do things they just can't do. I feel confident Pelini does this, and personally, I think our biggest shortcoming right now is in the interior defensive line. Other defensive guys, including Charlie McBride IIRC (don't quote me on that), have said this scheme needs a dominant DT to be really effective, and we definitely haven't had that since 2009 and to a lesser degree in 2010.
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I think that guy is on the roster and his name is Vincent Valentine to be honest with you. Have been very impressed with his play a lot of the time. Hes just a young pup as well. Avery Moss is another kid that I think is going to be a monster. Hes created a lot of issues even for UCLA's OTs.

It really sucks being young on defense. But we have shown a lot of promise at times.
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VV has a lot of potential. I didn't mean to insinuate we don't have that talent right now. If that's how it came across, my mistake. We've got a very talented group of guys but, as you mentioned, they're being held back by youth and inexperience right now. That will just come with time, and when it does, their knowledge will allow their bodies to be more dominant on the field.

 
Enhance89 said:
EZ-E said:
Enhance89 said:
From my perspective, you alter the scheme to fit the players you have, not the players you have to fit your scheme. The latter spells disaster because you may be asking guys to do things they just can't do. I feel confident Pelini does this, and personally, I think our biggest shortcoming right now is in the interior defensive line. Other defensive guys, including Charlie McBride IIRC (don't quote me on that), have said this scheme needs a dominant DT to be really effective, and we definitely haven't had that since 2009 and to a lesser degree in 2010.
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I think that guy is on the roster and his name is Vincent Valentine to be honest with you. Have been very impressed with his play a lot of the time. Hes just a young pup as well. Avery Moss is another kid that I think is going to be a monster. Hes created a lot of issues even for UCLA's OTs.

It really sucks being young on defense. But we have shown a lot of promise at times.
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VV has a lot of potential. I didn't mean to insinuate we don't have that talent right now. If that's how it came across, my mistake. We've got a very talented group of guys but, as you mentioned, they're being held back by youth and inexperience right now. That will just come with time, and when it does, their knowledge will allow their bodies to be more dominant on the field.
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Wasn't that I thought you said that at all. Just wanted my opinion on some of the roster to be known. What you think? Still a need for a JUCO DT? I don't see that big of a need anymore.

 
The King said:
1995 Redux said:
Valentine looks to be that guy weve lacked. I presume next year he comes in looking jacked with a whole offseason of conditioning. Add a touch of speed to that monster and we could be looking at an anchor.
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Maybe if we alter our S&C program... We went from WAY ahead to probably behind everyone else that is of consequence.

Further, people keep harping on Pelini and his scheme. This scheme is not the same as it was in 2009 or 2010. They have made adjustments to fit the players that they have. They obviously aren't running a full playbook playing 12 freshman/sophomores in the 2 deep. Still think they make a pretty significant jump here pretty soon, and then next season will be MUCH better defensively.
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It's really unfortunate about our S&C program. Our admin has been proactive about it from the sound of it though.

 
Good defensive tackles will help either and any coordinator, including Pelini or McBride. The entire DL was NFL caliber in the mid 90's.....Peter bros, Wistrom, Tomich.

 
EZ-E said:
1995 Redux said:
Maybe for depth. Doesnt hurt to take one if injuries sneak up.
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That's the only reason I see as well. We have so much talent on the DL. Avery Moss is getting basically the same if not better production that RG44.
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Just thinking of what these guys will be capable of next year or the following gets me excited. Well, not like that. Ok a little like that.

 
1995 Redux said:
EZ-E said:
1995 Redux said:
Maybe for depth. Doesnt hurt to take one if injuries sneak up.
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That's the only reason I see as well. We have so much talent on the DL. Avery Moss is getting basically the same if not better production that RG44.
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Just thinking of what these guys will be capable of next year or the following gets me excited. Well, not like that. Ok a little like that.
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Dude... It gives me so much wood that I could build a tree house.

 
Yeah, it may be hard for new players to figure out and some may never get it, but I think it's primarily the Jimmys and Joes....they have to also have the instinct to be in the right place. Haven't we seen our star lb get chewed out for not playing his assignment, but he was the only one making any tackles....if not for him it would've been some great assignment playing and no tackles. The other thing to always consider is that this is not the NFL.....they can't practice all day and you have to have a plan that they can reasonably learn in the amount of time you have, whether they're a Jimmy or not. Someone should ask Bo if he could teach a DT to knock two blockers back 5 yards and tackle the QB;....I think that's all we would need.

 
BigRedBuster said:
I totally agree with your assessment of what makes a good coach.

I have always said that Larry Bird would make a better coach (and did) than Michael Jordan ever could dream of. Why? because it came so natural to MJ that he would have a very hard time teaching it to other, less talented, players. Counter that with Bird and all the stories I have read about what made him so good was all his tireless work in the gym because it wasn't as easy for him.

I think the same thing can be said about how Ganz relates to QBs. He was good. But, he wasn't this 5 star player who came out of HS and rolled right in and succeeded at the next level. He worked his azz off and right up until the first game he started, most Husker fans thought he would never amount to anything. He can now take that experience and relate to every QB in the system.

Now...as far as Bo's system. I have no idea. The big question to me is.....how much more difficult is his system than what is being ran at other top programs. If the answer is "not much" then it isn't the difficulty of the system that is the problem. Now, if other very successful programs (on defense) have a much more simple scheme and let's the athlete play, then it's something that needs to be considered.
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I agree with this.....except the Jordan comment. No one was a bigger gym rat than MJ.

 
A good analogy for the D is A pilot who goes to school to learn how to fly a plane goes to learn how to fly a plane not how to build a plane. The defense can be compared to a pilot who has learned so much on how to build a plane that they've forgotten how to fly it.

This is an analogy that can be used for a lot of sports and I think right now the defense has Been taught so much that they all probably have tremendous knowledge and could probably become great coaches but they aren't coaches right now they're players. Pelinis defenses are such that te strong safety is educated not only on what he is supposed to be doing but what the d line linebackers etc are also doing. This has some positives but at the same time if your mind is constantly studying and learning it can forget the overall instincts of the game. I'm not saying to dumb it down but to learn and understand first what you're specific duty is on defense and perfect it. You could also think of it as an undergraduate student who hasn't declared a major. They know a little aboit a lot but haven't perfected anything. A phd student knows a lot about a little. The undergraduate student is like our defense they know know a little about a lot and its doing them no good because they are forgetting the main objective and that is to perfect their job at hand

 
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