When you toss it into the endzone for the game winner.

[JTrain]

I don't think the pass to Westy would have gone anywhere, and it could have potentially been an INT as well. The smartest route on this play in hindsight is Taariq Allen's. The defender in the middle of the field never looked at Allen or even that side of the field. It was 2 on 2 coverage and the safety was well off Taariq.

That would be a play where if Tommy could fool the defense with his eyes, we could have won that game.

Who knows. The Westy throw is a tough throw but it's there. You're right he may have thrown an INT. If the pass is low or behind Allen, he risks not getting the first down which is bad news. Personally I like the middle of the field with Westy beating the safety inside. But then again, I liked that all night and we threw it maybe once. Or if we really wanna use hindsight, how about releasing Ameer down the middle?

That's a Heisman moment.

 

[zoogs]

JMO - that Westy throw was not there. Armstrong would have to whip his body to face the other side of the field and commit to the throw no-look, and I'm not sure that gives him enough time to re-set his feet and throw the out pattern, a really tough throw anyway.

Neither Allen nor Ameer could have been open. Allen's heading inside and that area is well guarded by two Spartan zones. Not to mention Ameer is at the bottom of the screen in 1-on-1 pass protection. He wasn't releasing regardless. This coverage has 3 deep zones and 2 shallow zones vs 4 receivers. I have to disagree that there was any middle of the field open; it was a matter of getting a receiver to split two zones and get him the ball that way.

I don't think DPE was running an out-and-up. I think his job was to draw the shallow corner to the sideline with him. Hovey is the one that's supposed to be downfield getting this pass past the sticks, and it looks like both QB & WRs saw the same thing here; the WRs just got caught up in traffic and Hovey was late getting to the spot.

So, Tommy made the right read and the right throw. Even had he had to abandon both right side WRs, the left side is symmetrical. There's no way to know if there's anything open there, and no time to check. I believe this play was designed to go to the right all the way, and which receiver it was going to go to depended on how the Spartan DBs reacted.

Worth mentioning that we had no timeouts, needed at least a 1st down or out of bounds.

 

[Army_Allen]

With the time differences from the beginning of the snap to the time where the pocket has collapsed on him was about 3.5 to 4 seconds, plenty of time for him to read a different route on the dl far side of the field, he just didn't. And didn't for most of the night. That part is on him, but the route he chose was a good enough ig Hovey is running the play people are saying he was. Also who knows if that'd not an errant ball still even without the bump.

 

[JTrain]

Allen's initial route was a curl and he was wide open. He only ran to the middle when he knew Tommy wasn't going at him. But watching it over again, I think you're right that it was designed only to go to the right. Allen and Westy were just decoys, because Tommy first stares down the middle of the field (no routes) to try to move the safety and then looks to the right.

As for the routes, it's a guess. Hovey initially stops at the 30 like a curl route, then head toward the middle of the field. If Tommy was trying to go to him it was either a bad overthrow or he expected Hovey to break a different direction.

As for Ameer, I didn't mean in the actual play as it happened. I meant if he was designed to run down the middle, it could have worked nicely with the blitz they brought. Catch it around the 32 going full speed an maybe pick up a block from the slot receivers.

 

[zoogs]

Allen -- I clocked snap to throw at 2.45 seconds.

And if you see your first option there, why would you go away from it? Taking time to do that and look for other options that may or may not be there (if they were even part of the play design) is how you get sacked.

 

[EmeraldIngot]

With the time differences from the beginning of the snap to the time where the pocket has collapsed on him was about 3.5 to 4 seconds, plenty of time for him to read a different route on the dl far side of the field, he just didn't. And didn't for most of the night. That part is on him, but the route he chose was a good enough ig Hovey is running the play people are saying he was. Also who knows if that'd not an errant ball still even without the bump.

Any pass play takes a bare minimum of 2 seconds to develop enough to tell if a reciever is going to be open or not, and that's for the really quick routes like slants, drags, and shallow in or out routes. For any pass route that goes farther than 10 yards, it takes a minimum of 3 seconds to read one side of the field, and that's for NFL legend calibre of quarterbacks. Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and possibly Andrew Luck could have read that play in the 3.5 seconds before the pocket collapsed, and even they would have needed 4 seconds total to have decided the right side of the field was closed out, turn to the left side, read the coverage, set feet in the face of a guy about to smash you into the turf, and deliver a bullet. I'm glad that you think so highly of Tommy's skills as a QB, and he might be able to make passes like that by the time he's a senior, but right now, that's impossible for him to do with as little time as he had.

 

[JTrain]

The blitz was a smart call. They knew we needed a route past the first down line and they knew Tommy would struggle trying to read deep routes in 2.45 seconds.

 

[cg_8]

Allen's initial route was a curl and he was wide open. He only ran to the middle when he knew Tommy wasn't going at him. But watching it over again, I think you're right that it was designed only to go to the right. Allen and Westy were just decoys, because Tommy first stares down the middle of the field (no routes) to try to move the safety and then looks to the right.

As for the routes, it's a guess. Hovey initially stops at the 30 like a curl route, then head toward the middle of the field. If Tommy was trying to go to him it was either a bad overthrow or he expected Hovey to break a different direction.

As for Ameer, I didn't mean in the actual play as it happened. I meant if he was designed to run down the middle, it could have worked nicely with the blitz they brought. Catch it around the 32 going full speed an maybe pick up a block from the slot receivers.

Hovey isn't running a curl. That's what it looks like because Hovey's timing is WAY off. He's supposed to be running a post or possibly a Stem route. Either way, Hovey is supposed to be right where Tommy threw the ball. The other guy is running a "bait" route, out and up is what it looks like, but it's bait. It's designed in the play, that's why Tommy threw it when he did. If he saw the LB move in the direction of the "bait" route, then you throw the "under" post that was supposed to be there. Unfortunately, it wasn't because Hovey (due to inexperience) didn't have his timing down.

Either way, it's a crossing route combo. It was designed that way and Tommy is specifically looking in that direction because he's reading what the LB does in that situation. In this play, the LB takes the "bait" and Hovey would have been open if he went under the other route as designed.

 

[JTrain]

Figured it out from the press conference. Outside guys are running "stutter" routes and the inside guys corner routes. Not 100% sure which direction exactly they were supposed to head after the stutter move, but judging by Allen it was diagonally (post). The stutter is supposed to give DPE time to break before Hovey comes across so they don't collide, but with DPE starting off the line and both guys running sloppy routes, it didn't work and they bumped. Either way it looked like an overthrow.

 

[Mavric]

^ Didn't notice that until you posted your picture but with that route combo, DPE should have been on the line with Hovey off. That's probably why Hovey had to slow up to let DPE clear. If DPE would have been a step ahead to start, it probably would have gone smoother.

 

[JTrain]

Yeah, I was wondering that too. I don't know if they just flat-out lined up wrong or if they assume the stutter should give the slot guy time to clear either way.

 

[RedDenver]

Thanks for the analysis guys. Good stuff.

 

[BigRedBuster]

^ Didn't notice that until you posted your picture but with that route combo, DPE should have been on the line with Hovey off. That's probably why Hovey had to slow up to let DPE clear. If DPE would have been a step ahead to start, it probably would have gone smoother.

Possibly right. But, if both are confident in what they are doing, DPE is much faster than Hovey and Hovey is doing the stutter move which should give DPE time to clear.

Anyway, it's interesting analyzing what happened and frustrating at the same time because we could have won that game.

Actually, from looking at the picture in Jtrain's post, it looks like DPE didn't run his route deep enough IF he takes two more steps before he cuts, there is no chance they run into each other.

 

[SuperBigFan69]

Figured it out from the press conference. Outside guys are running "stutter" routes and the inside guys corner routes. Not 100% sure which direction exactly they were supposed to head after the stutter move, but judging by Allen it was diagonally (post). The stutter is supposed to give DPE time to break before Hovey comes across so they don't collide, but with DPE starting off the line and both guys running sloppy routes, it didn't work and they bumped. Either way it looked like an overthrow.

Nicely done!

 

[Warrior]

When Moore almost caught the TD on the second Fade route in a row. The post was a great call. He was knocked off his route. Tommy did the right thing and the play was a good call.