Riley on Quarterback Competition
- Thread starter Mavric
- Start date
Landlord
Banned
The only thing we've ever really disagreed on is what we think he's capable of and what he will fulfill potential-wise. You see just as plainly as I do that he's been mediocre most of the time and good some of the time thus far. I don't know if he's capable of much more (though I would love to be proven wrong), and you have an undying belief that the kid can/will be great.
admo
Heisman Trophy Winner
TMart threw 3 quick screens a game, easily. I'll bet he completed 38 out of 40 of them. Maybe 50 out of 55? Just guessing over the course of 14 games played in 2012. That affected his completion percentage in a great way. With Armstrong at QB I don't recall seeing nearly as many. It seemed with him, Beck replaced those lateral passes with more shots downfield. So if Riley does throw a couple bubble screens, his percentage will improve. But by saying this, it just means % is not always represented accurately. Those high completion passes did not always get more than 3 yards, which often got frustrating.
From the link that I read, I like the idea of using TE's and vertical passing with some play action and the importance of the QB getting the ball to playmakers. Just make the right reads quickly, get the ball to the playmakers accurately, and manage the game. I'm a little hesitant with TA anymore, but I do think he has the physical tools. Riley & Langsdorf are going to be extremely valuable to these quarterbacks, arguably the best instructors that have been here in a long time. Now is the time to learn, grow and get better. It might take some time, but I will be patient as a fan.
From the link that I read, I like the idea of using TE's and vertical passing with some play action and the importance of the QB getting the ball to playmakers. Just make the right reads quickly, get the ball to the playmakers accurately, and manage the game. I'm a little hesitant with TA anymore, but I do think he has the physical tools. Riley & Langsdorf are going to be extremely valuable to these quarterbacks, arguably the best instructors that have been here in a long time. Now is the time to learn, grow and get better. It might take some time, but I will be patient as a fan.
You're probably right that we threw downfield more with TA. But I would postulate that because that's the only ball that he threw really well. We tried to throw screens but he had a terrible time completing them. He was also not very good on the short, quick routes that help your percentage. So it's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg thing.
HuskermanMike
Starter
I think Tommy will start in the spring and another qb competition will brew in fall camp.
I didn't like the excuse of oh hes a sophomore or oh hes a freshmen he will get better. Taylor got better because he had a paid qb coach not Tim Beck telling him what to do in my opinion. Now, with good coaching I can say that all of these qbs will get better and I can say that with confidence.
Tommy just needs to fix short and mid range passing which seems to be the recipe of success right now, because if you hit people with the mid range game, then you go deep and burn em. Also, it would be great to fix his long range accuracy instead of being a hopeful heave or the ArmStrong punt.
I didn't like the excuse of oh hes a sophomore or oh hes a freshmen he will get better. Taylor got better because he had a paid qb coach not Tim Beck telling him what to do in my opinion. Now, with good coaching I can say that all of these qbs will get better and I can say that with confidence.
Tommy just needs to fix short and mid range passing which seems to be the recipe of success right now, because if you hit people with the mid range game, then you go deep and burn em. Also, it would be great to fix his long range accuracy instead of being a hopeful heave or the ArmStrong punt.
BigRedBuster
International Man of Mystery
That is what Tommy said in his part of the presser. On the flip side, Riley mentioned having designed QB runs in his offense and how he has never had an athlete like Tommy to do that. He specifically went into detail about how some teams are over 50% on 3rd down conversions. He said when he looks at those teams, inevitably, they have a QB that many times is running for those 1st downs. That can be either a designed run or an athletic QB simply making a play.
Reading one heck of a lot between the lines. It sounds like Riley and Langsdorf have challenged Tommy to improve his completion rate and his ability to make good decisions in the passing game. I think they see he has the running game down. His biggest upside is to improve his passing. Tommy specifically talked about improving his footwork and body mechanics when he throws. It seemed like he knew what they were talking about and he would be working on that in the off season. Again, Riley then went on to say how he sees a natural thrower in Tommy. I think what he is saying is when he has time and is relaxed, he has a nice motion. Gets rid of it fast. Steps into it...etc. More work on footwork and mechanics hopefully will allow him to have that more in the heat of battle.
Tommy isn't all of a sudden going to be a pocket passer and never use his legs.
Landlord
Banned
Taylor got better because of a number of different factors, including Calhoun, but not only because of Calhoun. If I remember correctly, his outside help was exclusively focused around his physical mechanics. His growing knowledge and command of the offense can rightly be attributed to him, Beck and Ganz.
I don't really agree with this - Tommy has thrown the ball deep more, but he has had plenty of quick screen calls as well. He just can't throw them well. Also don't forget his "my first read isn't open so I'm going to default to launching it 40 yards downfield to absolutely nobody" habit that popped up a few times per game. If you go back through my highlight videos you'll see plenty of lateral passes from Tommy, and you'll see plenty of bombs that nobody was within 15 yards of as well. There's also been, just, a TON of balls he's thrown that weren't picked but could/should have been. Dare I say more than Taylor even? Not sure but there have been a ton.
Guy Chamberlin
Heisman Trophy Winner
Every coach wants his quarterback to stay in the pocket as long as possible, because one of your receivers is likely to get separation.
QBs who can make things happen with their legs often take off too early, but not every 8 yard scramble is worth abandoning the designed pass play. Hard to talk them out of that.
But as much as coaches hate it, that scrambling, improvising QB who can throw or keep on a rollout is an absolutely nightmare for opposing defenses. Maybe they shouldn't be talked out of it.
Agree that Tommy was encouraged to pursue a lower percentage/higher reward passing game. I kinda liked it.
The real measure is Yards per Attempt, just like a running back:
Tommy Armstrong 2014: 7.8 yards per attempt
Taylor Martinez 2012: 7.7 yards per attempt
Joe Ganz 2008: 8.4 yards per attempt
Eric Crouch 2001: 8.2 yards per attempt
Tommy's in the mix. Nothing to freak out about.
QBs who can make things happen with their legs often take off too early, but not every 8 yard scramble is worth abandoning the designed pass play. Hard to talk them out of that.
But as much as coaches hate it, that scrambling, improvising QB who can throw or keep on a rollout is an absolutely nightmare for opposing defenses. Maybe they shouldn't be talked out of it.
Agree that Tommy was encouraged to pursue a lower percentage/higher reward passing game. I kinda liked it.
The real measure is Yards per Attempt, just like a running back:
Tommy Armstrong 2014: 7.8 yards per attempt
Taylor Martinez 2012: 7.7 yards per attempt
Joe Ganz 2008: 8.4 yards per attempt
Eric Crouch 2001: 8.2 yards per attempt
Tommy's in the mix. Nothing to freak out about.
Count 'Bility
Banned
Tommy will be fine. Knowing football and the system used, a lot of the issues in the pass game are mostly due to lack of timing and chemstry with receivers. Go back to the Mich St game and all the missed throws on the bubbles. Remember they came after Bell went down then all a sudden he's throwing one of the most tricky balls (swing out) in the repetroir to Tariq Allen and Alonzo Moore. Timing and chemistry off. The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed. No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.
We've seen that Tommy has plenty of skill to work with and I think it's forgotten that he was actually the better thrower coming out of high school. Taylor and Zac Lee werent exactly Tom Bradys either, so I think it was more the system than Tommy's ability.
We've seen that Tommy has plenty of skill to work with and I think it's forgotten that he was actually the better thrower coming out of high school. Taylor and Zac Lee werent exactly Tom Bradys either, so I think it was more the system than Tommy's ability.
BigRedBuster
International Man of Mystery
I agree. And, I think that many of our interceptions over the last 4-5 years have been because the receiver goes one way and the QB thinks he's going the other. Many times when fans sit and complain because he was SOOOO far off on a throw, it's because he thought the receiver was going to be somewhere else than where he was.
I have never understood how that system can be 100% correct all the time.
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Count 'Bility
Banned