Riley on Quarterback Competition

[Guy Chamberlin]

Tommy will be fine. Knowing football and the system used, a lot of the issues in the pass game are mostly due to lack of timing and chemstry with receivers. Go back to the Mich St game and all the missed throws on the bubbles. Remember they came after Bell went down then all a sudden he's throwing one of the most tricky balls (swing out) in the repetroir to Tariq Allen and Alonzo Moore. Timing and chemistry off. The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed. No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

We've seen that Tommy has plenty of skill to work with and I think it's forgotten that he was actually the better thrower coming out of high school. Taylor and Zac Lee werent exactly Tom Bradys either, so I think it was more the system than Tommy's ability.

I agree. And, I think that many of our interceptions over the last 4-5 years have been because the receiver goes one way and the QB thinks he's going the other. Many times when fans sit and complain because he was SOOOO far off on a throw, it's because he thought the receiver was going to be somewhere else than where he was.

I have never understood how that system can be 100% correct all the time.

In fairness you see this same miscommunication every Sunday in the NFL, from some of the best football players in the business.

It happened too often last year, but it's not always an indictment of Tommy. Or the receiver. Gets better with familiarity.

That's why the best receivers in football are rarely the fastest or the tallest or even the most sticky-handed. It's guys with a knack for being where they need to be. Quarterbacks love that guy. After awhile they just synch up.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Tommy will be fine. Knowing football and the system used, a lot of the issues in the pass game are mostly due to lack of timing and chemstry with receivers. Go back to the Mich St game and all the missed throws on the bubbles. Remember they came after Bell went down then all a sudden he's throwing one of the most tricky balls (swing out) in the repetroir to Tariq Allen and Alonzo Moore. Timing and chemistry off. The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed. No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

We've seen that Tommy has plenty of skill to work with and I think it's forgotten that he was actually the better thrower coming out of high school. Taylor and Zac Lee werent exactly Tom Bradys either, so I think it was more the system than Tommy's ability.

I agree. And, I think that many of our interceptions over the last 4-5 years have been because the receiver goes one way and the QB thinks he's going the other. Many times when fans sit and complain because he was SOOOO far off on a throw, it's because he thought the receiver was going to be somewhere else than where he was.

I have never understood how that system can be 100% correct all the time.

In fairness you see this same miscommunication every Sunday in the NFL, from some of the best football players in the business.

It happened too often last year, but it's not always an indictment of Tommy. Or the receiver. Gets better with familiarity.

That's why the best receivers in football are rarely the fastest or the tallest or even the most sticky-handed. It's guys with a knack for being where they need to be. Quarterbacks love that guy. After awhile they just synch up.

You mean the white receivers........

Real coaches on the field.

LOL. Ooops.

 

[Count 'Bility]

\The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed.

No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

Forgive my ignorance but these sound like exactly the same thing.

it's not ignorance. Pretty good question cuz now that I read it again it does seem to contradict itself. I'll clarify what I mean. Basically, reads and changes in routes under a supposed Riley system are all presnap, while the option routes under Beck as we speak of are all post snap. During the play.

Having a set play with set routes susceptible to PRE snap audibles based on alignment of a defense takes away a lot of guessing and interpreting on the fly from not just one (qb) guy, but two, since the qb and receiver are each going through reads and checks on the fly. Now combine that with our attempt at up tempo no huddle in which all plays are called with hand signals as well as our what-seemed-to-be excessive rotation each play or two, and when you think about it it's really no wonder we had so many alleged miscommunications. How many times would we see two receivers in the same area? These are reasons i expect to see much more competence in terms of basic execution come fall.

 

[BigRedBuster]

\The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed.

No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

Forgive my ignorance but these sound like exactly the same thing.

Count can correct me if I'm wrong.

However, the way I understand this is that a "route tree" is one where if you look at the play drawn out, you will have receivers at 2-3 levels. It gets to a point where one of them should be open because the DBs have a hard time covering all areas. (That is if the receivers run good routes). Those receivers have designated routes where the QB knows where they are going to be and when. They are also timed so that the QB has a designated check down from 1 to 2 to 3.

What we have been running, the QB and WRs go up to the LOS and read the defense. Now, everyone has got to read the defense the exact same way because that determines the routes each WR is going to be running. If there are 3 WRs on the field, the QB has got to be able to tell how each WR is being defended so that he knows where that guy is going to run. The pass then needs to be timed to be there at the right time.

If the WR and the QB are not on the same page reading the defense, disaster many times happens. The ball can be thrown into dead space with a safety standing right there. Sure, it looks like a completely horrible throw. But, in reality, the throw might have been a dang good throw to that spot.....the WR just wasn't there like the QB thought he would be.

EDIT: Reading Count's post above mine makes mine slightly wrong as far as when the QB and WR are reading the defense.

 

[Count 'Bility]

\The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed.

No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

Forgive my ignorance but these sound like exactly the same thing.

Count can correct me if I'm wrong.

However, the way I understand this is that a "route tree" is one where if you look at the play drawn out, you will have receivers at 2-3 levels. It gets to a point where one of them should be open because the DBs have a hard time covering all areas. (That is if the receivers run good routes). Those receivers have designated routes where the QB knows where they are going to be and when. They are also timed so that the QB has a designated check down from 1 to 2 to 3.

What we have been running, the QB and WRs go up to the LOS and read the defense. Now, everyone has got to read the defense the exact same way because that determines the routes each WR is going to be running. If there are 3 WRs on the field, the QB has got to be able to tell how each WR is being defended so that he knows where that guy is going to run. The pass then needs to be timed to be there at the right time.

If the WR and the QB are not on the same page reading the defense, disaster many times happens. The ball can be thrown into dead space with a safety standing right there. Sure, it looks like a completely horrible throw. But, in reality, the throw might have been a dang good throw to that spot.....the WR just wasn't there like the QB thought he would be.

There's also read post-snap. A defense can come up and show man coverage and then roll into a full blown zone on the snap or vice versa. Theres the matchup zone that Bo used. Theres all sorts of tricks to disguising coverage. So a good route combination will have 4 to 5 options that regardless of the defense played, something is going to be open based on the look the defense will give agaisnt a particular formation. Then that's where the chess starts. When they adjust, you have to have your adjustment plays and have to be able to anticipate certain adjustments that will be made. Good coaches know what it'll take to stop each and every play they run and will have a counter to such adjustment. But again, this is all predicated on the fact that these things are ALL happening presnap, not during the play, on the fly at full speed. Now, it's up to the qb to identify the defense being played shortly after the snap, for example, knowing he's got the slot on the left hitting the corner and if it's tampa 2, he needs to be able to drop it in on that corner route.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Also, I'm sure we're still gonna incorporate some the of the simple basic option routes post snap. Like anything else, you cant rely on one or the other exlusively. Like optioning an out or a slant into a hitch if the defense rolls from a man look to zone at the the snap. But that's kids play stuff. Grade schoolers run that stuff.

 

[cg_8]

I was so sick of read routes by the end of the year. Granted, a lot of your everyday route concepts have read routes built in based on coverage, after last year, and the issues that arose from them, I am done with them.

They work perfectly when you have a built chemistry. For example, I don't know if if gets any better than Tony Romo and Jason Witten. They both have a knack for it.

Here's an example, Vs. Purdue this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRa4iSpnoc?t=1h59m10s

Westerkamp could either go over or under, and he goes over, despite the fact that there isn't any "under" help. If Westerkamp goes "under" than that's a complete pass. But it's not all on Westerkamp. Because Westerkamp probably sees the other safety there and doesn't want to get destroyed by him. Can't blame any of the players for the decisions they made. Frankly, if you're talkin' X's and O's, Tommy makes the right read. Which is why you see Tommy a bit upset about it. This was the second time Westerkamp chose the "over" when the "under" was there that turned into an INT.

Another just for kicks, vs. USC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HkcorfXSo?t=47m6s

Westerkamp decides to go deep. Maybe the deep was there. Tommy sees that the middle is completely and insanely wide open. Watch the replay and you'll see that it's definitely there. At the same time, Westerkamp can probably beat that guy on that deep route. Neither are wrong. (I don't mean to pick on Westerkamp, I love the kid, these are just the two I remember off the top of my head right now)

The problem was that it existed. Beck loved "read and react" to an extreme, and it sort of showed. I am sure Langsdorf system will have read routes, heck, the four verticals route concept has it built in depending on coverage. But something tells me that we will at least limit them.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Another thing ill add is that too many times ive seen Tommy put too much faith in the scheme and not enough in his eyes. At some point you have to use your eyes and get the ball where it needs to be. Too many times throws were made with obvious assumption the receiver was in the right spot. This falls perfectly in line with the westy throws shown above. Under or over or whatever, regardless, Tommy should still see the route and adjust his throw. Just more proof of the robotic style of play and "trust in the scheme" that was far overused.

 

[True2tRA]

\The option route bs threw off a lot as well. Ive never been a fan of it even at the pro level where guys actually have the time and resources to develop the necessary chemistry and communication. Design a route concept with the proper route tree to be able to have an open guy against any defense possible. This is what Riley himself said yesterday. Then practice those routes and run them as designed.

No more readin this and that and breakin this route off and change that one to a go and needing the qb AND receiver on the same page of a 1000 page novel.

Forgive my ignorance but these sound like exactly the same thing.

it's not ignorance. Pretty good question cuz now that I read it again it does seem to contradict itself. I'll clarify what I mean. Basically, reads and changes in routes under a supposed Riley system are all presnap, while the option routes under Beck as we speak of are all post snap. During the play.
Having a set play with set routes susceptible to PRE snap audibles based on alignment of a defense takes away a lot of guessing and interpreting on the fly from not just one (qb) guy, but two, since the qb and receiver are each going through reads and checks on the fly. Now combine that with our attempt at up tempo no huddle in which all plays are called with hand signals as well as our what-seemed-to-be excessive rotation each play or two, and when you think about it it's really no wonder we had so many alleged miscommunications. How many times would we see two receivers in the same area? These are reasons i expect to see much more competence in terms of basic execution come fall.

Exactly.
It's why I say Tommy was overwhelmed many times last year. This was a lot for a QB to take in. Optimally, a QB and a WR have played together for a long period of time, had tons of practice together, and develop chemistry and familiarity. With restrictions on practice time, going to school, injuries and inexperience, it can be difficult for a QB to ever really develop a true rhythm and understanding with his WR's. Hell, even in the NFL and their massive amounts of time and practice they can commit to, they still have miscommunications and mis-reads.

You have two options in the college game. You pray your QB and WR's come through the system together, find that rhythm early, and nobody gets hurt. Or......you simplify a bit, make it easier for those receivers to get on the same page by giving them designed plays with designed routes. You will always have some freedom as a WR. Sometimes it is simply cutting off a route or changin the depth of the route to find a gap, but it doesn't always have to be a complete route read. It can be a long and frustrating process and it showed at times last year. Many mistakes were simply based on guys not being on the same page.

On top of that, this is where using a TE in the short passing game can be key. If you are running a complicated scheme, if plays are taking time to develop or not developing at all, or if WR's are not finding the gaps in the defense, that TE can be the money man. Big body, easy target. Doesn't always have to be WIDE OPEN but you can still get it to him and know he has a big enough body to come away with the ball. Almost every NFL team has their safety valve, and usually it's the TE. Last year I think Nebraska's safety valve may have been Abdullah out of the back field in the passing game. We just didn't utilize it enough.