BTN Analysts on Armstrong

[cornographic]

Armstrong holds the keys to the car, yep, so I hope he gets the short passing game under his belt and I hope the new coaches run him more than Beck did. Jumior year is often when the light really goes off in a player's head, so I'm thinking their will be a noticeable jump in his perfomance.

It's maybe a little sobering that he'd most likely be playing 4th fiddle on tOSU.

 

[cg_8]

I think Tommy is slightly better than we give him credit for. Call me stupid (you wouldn't be alone) but we've seen progress from him. The 22/12 TD/Int ratio is far from bad. Not good, but better than Martinez's 13/8 his sophomore year. It's also 1 TD away from Martinez's 23/12 season in 2012, which was his best.

I've got mad respect for his leadership. He's got tremendous potential, and he plays better than a large majority of QB's in the college game.

The problem was that he ran in an offense that (as someone stated earlier) relied on too many read routes. He didn't have a proper QB coach, as Ganz may or may not have been qualified to be the guy consistently talking to him on the sidelines.

I look forward to seeing what Tommy does. I think he'll be better. The way Tommy finished the season was promising. He was sharp during the Minnesota game. Almost hit Westerkamp for a game winning TD. His arm during that last drive was impressive, too bad it ended with a fumble. 4 TD's against Iowa. He may not have started hot for that game, but he ended hot, hitting Kenny Bell for the game winner (while scrambling to keep the play alive). And his game against USC, 381 yards is impressive.

He doesn't need 350 yards. He just needs to be productive. I think he can do that, but he can definitely be better at it.

 

[NUinID]

We have to have a QB that is a consistent and actual passing threat. Until we do, it will continually see us facing teams that stack the box. Without AA, it will be harder.

I do like the idea of the swing pass and other ideas mentioned that Riley might use to loosen up the D. This is something I never saw Beck do was to call plays to get teams out of the box or make them pay for the aggressive play. Nor did I ever see Bo stack the box i.e. Wisky to make a QB beat us....

I am hoping that with a coach who can actually teach, Langs whose done it at the highest level and the fact Riley and Co have like 500 years of experience makes me optimistic that we will have an O tailored to the strengths of TA instead of making TA play like Manning or Brady....

We actually did have an offense tailored to TA's strengths last year. He had 10 - 12 designed carries a game, often threw on the run where he was most dangerous, and was allowed to throw deep because he does indeed have a strong arm and some fleet wide receivers. There were multiple games where some of those early deep balls loosened up the defense and helped Abdullah's running game. Beck did run some of those swing passes and screens, but because Tommy has trouble with the touch passes, they didn't play to his strength and they trimmed them down in the playbook. Just because Armstrong was allowed to throw deep doesn't mean we ran a Manning or Brady offense.

Armstrong simply has to get better at the swing passes and timing patterns if we intend to use them. He needs to make better decisions. His competitive fire and leadership seem above average and that's the stuff you can't teach. The rest you can. Hard to tell if Riley sees Armstrong as the dual threat he never had at OSU, or the guy who needs a lot of tutoring to become a full-time passing threat.

You expect Tommy Armstrong to be better with another year under his belt and a quarterback whisperer as head coach. He doesn't need to become a Manning or Brady. Even a modest upgrade over his sophomore season would make him a serious player. But he's a Junior returning starter with some interesting talent piling up behind him. No excuses. This is his make-or-break season. I'm looking forward to it.

Very well put Guy, we did have an offense tailored to his talents. I may be in the minority, but from watching the spring game I get the feeling that we are still going to run a little zone read. I still expect him to get 5-7 carries a game. Like I said in an earlier post, to get better at the swing passes/ timing route type stuff he they need to work on it.

 

[HuskerExpat]

We have to have a QB that is a consistent and actual passing threat. Until we do, it will continually see us facing teams that stack the box. Without AA, it will be harder.

I do like the idea of the swing pass and other ideas mentioned that Riley might use to loosen up the D. This is something I never saw Beck do was to call plays to get teams out of the box or make them pay for the aggressive play. Nor did I ever see Bo stack the box i.e. Wisky to make a QB beat us....

I am hoping that with a coach who can actually teach, Langs whose done it at the highest level and the fact Riley and Co have like 500 years of experience makes me optimistic that we will have an O tailored to the strengths of TA instead of making TA play like Manning or Brady....

We actually did have an offense tailored to TA's strengths last year. He had 10 - 12 designed carries a game, often threw on the run where he was most dangerous, and was allowed to throw deep because he does indeed have a strong arm and some fleet wide receivers. There were multiple games where some of those early deep balls loosened up the defense and helped Abdullah's running game. Beck did run some of those swing passes and screens, but because Tommy has trouble with the touch passes, they didn't play to his strength and they trimmed them down in the playbook. Just because Armstrong was allowed to throw deep doesn't mean we ran a Manning or Brady offense.

Armstrong simply has to get better at the swing passes and timing patterns if we intend to use them. He needs to make better decisions. His competitive fire and leadership seem above average and that's the stuff you can't teach. The rest you can. Hard to tell if Riley sees Armstrong as the dual threat he never had at OSU, or the guy who needs a lot of tutoring to become a full-time passing threat.

You expect Tommy Armstrong to be better with another year under his belt and a quarterback whisperer as head coach. He doesn't need to become a Manning or Brady. Even a modest upgrade over his sophomore season would make him a serious player. But he's a Junior returning starter with some interesting talent piling up behind him. No excuses. This is his make-or-break season. I'm looking forward to it.

Very well put Guy, we did have an offense tailored to his talents. I may be in the minority, but from watching the spring game I get the feeling that we are still going to run a little zone read. I still expect him to get 5-7 carries a game. Like I said in an earlier post, to get better at the swing passes/ timing route type stuff he they need to work on it.

Did Tim Beck even have any swing passes in his playbook? Or conventional screen passes, or bootleg passing plays that could be converted into running plays if no receiver was open? There certainly weren't any conventional play action pass plays since the QB never took the snap from under center. Not having a complete playbook (like those sort of plays) is the biggest issue I had with Tim Beck. When our O line was decimated by injury the natural response to that is a bootleg or conventional screen pass, but we didn't even have those plays in the playbook....

 

[Treand3]

I think Tommy is slightly better than we give him credit for. Call me stupid (you wouldn't be alone) but we've seen progress from him. The 22/12 TD/Int ratio is far from bad. Not good, but better than Martinez's 13/8 his sophomore year. It's also 1 TD away from Martinez's 23/12 season in 2012, which was his best.

I've got mad respect for his leadership. He's got tremendous potential, and he plays better than a large majority of QB's in the college game.

The problem was that he ran in an offense that (as someone stated earlier) relied on too many read routes. He didn't have a proper QB coach, as Ganz may or may not have been qualified to be the guy consistently talking to him on the sidelines.

I look forward to seeing what Tommy does. I think he'll be better. The way Tommy finished the season was promising. He was sharp during the Minnesota game. Almost hit Westerkamp for a game winning TD. His arm during that last drive was impressive, too bad it ended with a fumble. 4 TD's against Iowa. He may not have started hot for that game, but he ended hot, hitting Kenny Bell for the game winner (while scrambling to keep the play alive). And his game against USC, 381 yards is impressive.

He doesn't need 350 yards. He just needs to be productive. I think he can do that, but he can definitely be better at it.

Not entirely out of the question. He'll get the benefit of better QB coaching and play calling. He needs to be around the mid 60 percentile in completions in the big games for us to have a chance. Imho

 

[cg_8]

Did Tim Beck even have any swing passes in his playbook? Or conventional screen passes, or bootleg passing plays that could be converted into running plays if no receiver was open? There certainly weren't any conventional play action pass plays since the QB never took the snap from under center. Not having a complete playbook (like those sort of plays) is the biggest issue I had with Tim Beck. When our O line was decimated by injury the natural response to that is a bootleg or conventional screen pass, but we didn't even have those plays in the playbook....

Swing pass at 0:24



Beck had "packaged plays" too that sort of worked like your "bootleg passing plays" you're talking about, except they were running option first, then passing second. Those had a PA "look" considering that they were technically possible running plays.

 

[Mavric]

Did Beck ever have a counter play other than a reverse? I don't' remember much misdirection from any of his plays.

You can semantic this question to death but the zone read works on a lot of the same principles. You fake to the RB going one direction and the QB can pull and run the other way.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

We have to have a QB that is a consistent and actual passing threat. Until we do, it will continually see us facing teams that stack the box. Without AA, it will be harder.

I do like the idea of the swing pass and other ideas mentioned that Riley might use to loosen up the D. This is something I never saw Beck do was to call plays to get teams out of the box or make them pay for the aggressive play. Nor did I ever see Bo stack the box i.e. Wisky to make a QB beat us....

I am hoping that with a coach who can actually teach, Langs whose done it at the highest level and the fact Riley and Co have like 500 years of experience makes me optimistic that we will have an O tailored to the strengths of TA instead of making TA play like Manning or Brady....

We actually did have an offense tailored to TA's strengths last year. He had 10 - 12 designed carries a game, often threw on the run where he was most dangerous, and was allowed to throw deep because he does indeed have a strong arm and some fleet wide receivers. There were multiple games where some of those early deep balls loosened up the defense and helped Abdullah's running game. Beck did run some of those swing passes and screens, but because Tommy has trouble with the touch passes, they didn't play to his strength and they trimmed them down in the playbook. Just because Armstrong was allowed to throw deep doesn't mean we ran a Manning or Brady offense.

Armstrong simply has to get better at the swing passes and timing patterns if we intend to use them. He needs to make better decisions. His competitive fire and leadership seem above average and that's the stuff you can't teach. The rest you can. Hard to tell if Riley sees Armstrong as the dual threat he never had at OSU, or the guy who needs a lot of tutoring to become a full-time passing threat.

You expect Tommy Armstrong to be better with another year under his belt and a quarterback whisperer as head coach. He doesn't need to become a Manning or Brady. Even a modest upgrade over his sophomore season would make him a serious player. But he's a Junior returning starter with some interesting talent piling up behind him. No excuses. This is his make-or-break season. I'm looking forward to it.

Very well put Guy, we did have an offense tailored to his talents. I may be in the minority, but from watching the spring game I get the feeling that we are still going to run a little zone read. I still expect him to get 5-7 carries a game. Like I said in an earlier post, to get better at the swing passes/ timing route type stuff he they need to work on it.

Did Tim Beck even have any swing passes in his playbook? Or conventional screen passes, or bootleg passing plays that could be converted into running plays if no receiver was open? There certainly weren't any conventional play action pass plays since the QB never took the snap from under center. Not having a complete playbook (like those sort of plays) is the biggest issue I had with Tim Beck. When our O line was decimated by injury the natural response to that is a bootleg or conventional screen pass, but we didn't even have those plays in the playbook....

Yes. Beck always had swing passes and screen passes in the playbook. We didn't run them as often as some would like, but then again, when we ran them Tommy Armstrong was often too jacked to deliver the soft touch they needed. So Beck gets criticized for pulling back on plays his QB couldn't execute very well.

The bootleg kinda disappears when you have a running QB operating several zone reads a game, and yes, there were many plays where both Armstrong and Martinez got to roll out for a pass, knowing they could tuck and run if a receiver was covered and/or the secondary was playing too soft. Actually, that was a staple of the offense.

Nebraska used to run that slow developing play-action screen pass a lot under Osborne. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes defenses sniffed it out really well. It wasn't a fan favorite at the time, especially since the QB often had to throw a 25 yard pass sideways that hung up in the air for a dangerously long time.

I do miss old fashioned, under-the-center play-action football. Don't need a steady diet of it, but why not throw it in the mix.

 

[Sargon]

A swing pass is not an easy pass to hit.

 

[True2tRA]

I haven't watched Penn State enough to know for sure but the story has been that his OL has been so terrible that it's making it pretty tough on him. And the stats seem to back that up - Penn State was #119 in the country in sacks allowed last year. Twice as many as NU on about a third more attempts.

Nebraska's offensive line has been just as bad if not worse.

The sacks allowed stats are hardly applicable because the two are completely different QB's in different offenses.

Hackenburg is a statue, Tommy is mobile. Where Hackenburg may be sacked, Tommy uses his legs to avoid.

This also affects the way a defense plays you. For QB's like Hackenburg, a defensive line is able to pin their ears back and rush quite a bit more where as facing a mobile threat/dual threat, the defensive line is more apt to play cautious in certain scenarios.

Nebraska and Penn St. may both have horrible offensive lines.

I've watched Nebraska with my own two eyes for a lot of years now and I can say without a doubt the offensive line has not been much help to Tommy's development. Hopefully all of that changes this season.

 

[Mavric]

Did Beck ever have a counter play other than a reverse? I don't' remember much misdirection from any of his plays.

You can semantic this question to death but the zone read works on a lot of the same principles. You fake to the RB going one direction and the QB can pull and run the other way.

I'm not talking about a zone read...I'm talking about traps and counter treys with REAL counter blocking...misdirection in there. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to see something like a bootleg or just a simple counter trap play. Misdirection is something Beck just never cared much for.

Like I said, you can semantic that question to death. There are dozens of plays that you can come up with and say we didn't run that specific play. But the misdirection concept was there. As was the REAL counter blocking - we would often fake the RB one direction and run the QB the other way behind a pulling guard and tackle. The is a true counter blocking scheme - it just looks different in the backfield.

I find it interesting that may people apparently wanted Beck to be MORE multiple, despite constant statements to the contrary.

 

[cg_8]

Like I said, you can semantic that question to death. There are dozens of plays that you can come up with and say we didn't run that specific play. But the misdirection concept was there. As was the REAL counter blocking - we would often fake the RB one direction and run the QB the other way behind a pulling guard and tackle. The is a true counter blocking scheme - it just looks different in the backfield.

I find it interesting that may people apparently wanted Beck to be MORE multiple, despite constant statements to the contrary.

The play Mavric is describing is at 1:40



I freakin love that play.

 

[Mavric]

I haven't watched Penn State enough to know for sure but the story has been that his OL has been so terrible that it's making it pretty tough on him. And the stats seem to back that up - Penn State was #119 in the country in sacks allowed last year. Twice as many as NU on about a third more attempts.

Nebraska's offensive line has been just as bad if not worse.

The sacks allowed stats are hardly applicable because the two are completely different QB's in different offenses.

Hackenburg is a statue, Tommy is mobile. Where Hackenburg may be sacked, Tommy uses his legs to avoid.

This also affects the way a defense plays you. For QB's like Hackenburg, a defensive line is able to pin their ears back and rush quite a bit more where as facing a mobile threat/dual threat, the defensive line is more apt to play cautious in certain scenarios.

Nebraska and Penn St. may both have horrible offensive lines.

I've watched Nebraska with my own two eyes for a lot of years now and I can say without a doubt the offensive line has not been much help to Tommy's development. Hopefully all of that changes this season.

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

I'm not defending Hackenburg nor trying to compare the two. I just noted Nebraska's stats to give some sort of comparison to games that most of us have watched more than Penn State. But it was often noted last year that Penn State's OL wasn't very good. And you don't have to watch much football to hear many people talk about how even good QBs can look bad behind bad OLines. You even said so yourself.

 

[Mavric]

Like I said, you can semantic that question to death. There are dozens of plays that you can come up with and say we didn't run that specific play. But the misdirection concept was there. As was the REAL counter blocking - we would often fake the RB one direction and run the QB the other way behind a pulling guard and tackle. The is a true counter blocking scheme - it just looks different in the backfield.

I find it interesting that may people apparently wanted Beck to be MORE multiple, despite constant statements to the contrary.

The play Mavric is describing is at 1:40

Exactly.

That is a counter trey that TO would be proud of.

 

[True2tRA]

Tim Beck did not utilize a conventional HB screen more than a couple time in a season, EVER. End of story.

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play. The coaches clearly feared injury to Armstrong after seeing Martinez go down the year before.

Tim Beck did call a few designed "swing passes" I believe. One that stands out is the Michigan St. game that Tommy completely missed on. That one was on Tommy.

It appeared the check down pass to the RB was not a focus for Beck to get across to Tommy as the team never seemed to improve in this aspect. One would assume that if you practice it and make an effort to teach it, a QB would begin to do so. It's called coaching and teaching.

Tim Beck doesn't know what a TE is.

I chuckle when Tim Beck is relieved of responsibility on some of these things. Beck's playcalling was baffling. His penchant to find something that works and immediately go away from it was so aggravating for me to watch. His refusal to come down to the field and coach a freshman and sophomore QB who was clearly struggling was enough to piss a guy off. The lack of improvement in the same areas week after week, year after year. The never ending "check with Beck" sideline gazing as we tried to get the perfect play call according to the alignment of the defense.......GOOD GOD, why is the defense dictating the offense? Isn't it the other way around? Usually the defense is the one trying to align and match personnel, not vice-versa.

I could go on forever. I laugh when a coach is gone and we don't have to sit and watch the same garbage week after week and suddenly we forget what a sham it was.

Oh yea, the stats, that's right. We beat crappy teams and put up amazing numbers. Yet we could't piece a scoring drive together in some dire situations against the better teams we played. Or we called plays that put enormous amounts of pressure on QB's who were already in pressure filled situations.

The only thing better is now that Beck is an "assistant" with Urban Meyer, you here will somehow crown Beck as an offensive wizard because Ohio St. is successful. Ohio St. will be successful because Urban Meyer is their coach. Tim Beck will get an education up there which is more than he was getting or giving here at Nebraska.