BTN Analysts on Armstrong

[True2tRA]

I haven't watched Penn State enough to know for sure but the story has been that his OL has been so terrible that it's making it pretty tough on him. And the stats seem to back that up - Penn State was #119 in the country in sacks allowed last year. Twice as many as NU on about a third more attempts.

Nebraska's offensive line has been just as bad if not worse.

The sacks allowed stats are hardly applicable because the two are completely different QB's in different offenses.

Hackenburg is a statue, Tommy is mobile. Where Hackenburg may be sacked, Tommy uses his legs to avoid.

This also affects the way a defense plays you. For QB's like Hackenburg, a defensive line is able to pin their ears back and rush quite a bit more where as facing a mobile threat/dual threat, the defensive line is more apt to play cautious in certain scenarios.

Nebraska and Penn St. may both have horrible offensive lines.

I've watched Nebraska with my own two eyes for a lot of years now and I can say without a doubt the offensive line has not been much help to Tommy's development. Hopefully all of that changes this season.

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

I'm not defending Hackenburg nor trying to compare the two. I just noted Nebraska's stats to give some sort of comparison to games that most of us have watched more than Penn State. But it was often noted last year that Penn State's OL wasn't very good. And you don't have to watch much football to hear many people talk about how even good QBs can look bad behind bad OLines. You even said so yourself.

You heard the very same about Nebraska's offensive line.

You're right, I did say good QB's can look bad behind bad offensive lines. Difference between me and you is that I think Tommy is a good QB who was not helped by his offensive line. You don't.

I took what you said as a direct way to try to compare the two and as I said, they're two completely different types of QB's.

 

[True2tRA]

As far as the topic of the OP, anybody that lists Stave ahead of Armstrong when ranking Big Ten QB's immediately loses all credibility with me. I'm ready for Tommy to go out this year and make their ranking look really stupid.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Tim Beck did not utilize a conventional HB screen more than a couple time in a season, EVER. End of story.

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play. The coaches clearly feared injury to Armstrong after seeing Martinez go down the year before.

Guess I have a different definition of "ever" "fact" and "clearly."

The "fact" is that Armstrong "often" kept the ball on the zone read.

"Clearly" we watched a different team play.

End of story.

 

[Saunders]

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play.

[citation needed]

 

[Saunders]

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

Here you go.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

 

[Mavric]

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play.

TA had 145 carries last year. If you attribute all 22 sacks to TA, that's 122 carries for nearly 10 carries per game.

What other play were we running where he got all those carries?

 

[Saunders]

It's a little more complicated than that, but thats close. NU's standard down sack rate was high, but they made up for it on other areas to push the adjusted yardage. Football Outsiders is legit. It was started by some of the bright minds in the new analytics of football, like Chris Brown and Bill Connelly.

 

[True2tRA]

Tim Beck did not utilize a conventional HB screen more than a couple time in a season, EVER. End of story.

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play. The coaches clearly feared injury to Armstrong after seeing Martinez go down the year before.

Guess I have a different definition of "ever" "fact" and "clearly."

The "fact" is that Armstrong "often" kept the ball on the zone read.

"Clearly" we watched a different team play.

End of story.

Yea, we've been down this road before. I have no doubt in my mind that you mistakenly watched another team..

Wrong N buddy......

 

[True2tRA]

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play.

TA had 145 carries last year. If you attribute all 22 sacks to TA, that's 122 carries for nearly 10 carries per game.What other play were we running where he got all those carries?

145? Wow, that seems awful high. You didn't pull your number from Mavric's Imaginary Stats Used to Prove True2tra Wrong book did you?
I guess I'll have to fall on my own sword and say maybe he didn't do it as much as I would've liked. It seeme teams keyed on Abduallah constantly and there were many more opportunities for Tommy to keep it. Also, I'm not making this up, I can't remember where it came from, but there was information brought to light last season that the zone read play's were pre-determined.

I'll admit though, after all my preaching about people admitting when they're wrong around here, I'll practice what I preach. If Tommy had 145 carries last year, then RARELY EVER was a poor choice of words on my part. I should've said I'd have liked to see him make the reads and run with it when Abdullah was clearly the focus.

 

[Mavric]

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

Here you go.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

Adjusted Line Yards - NU #11 - PSU #111

Standard Down Line Yards per Carry - NU #24 - PSU #125

Pass Downs Line Yards per Carry - NU #21 - PSU #120

Opportunity Rate - NU #31 - PSU #124

Power Success Rate - NU #58 - PSU #101

Stuff Rate - NU #28 - PSU #125

Adjusted Sack Rate - NU #63 - PSU #101

Standard Downs Sack Rate - NU #91 - PSU #83

Passing Downs Sack Rate - NU #38 - PSU #121

Husker Average: #40; PSU: #112

Husker Run Blocking Average: #28; PSU: #117

Husker Sack Rate Average: #63: PSU: #101

So the numbers clearly show that NU's offensive line was MUCH better overall. The pass-blocking numbers were closer but NU still have a decided advantage.

And our run blocking was actually significantly better than I would imagine most would give us credit for.

 

[Mavric]

Tim Beck used a pre-determined zone read option. That fact came out at some point last season. Tommy's rarely EVER kept the ball on the zone read, even when the entire defense was keying on Abdullah play after play.

TA had 145 carries last year. If you attribute all 22 sacks to TA, that's 122 carries for nearly 10 carries per game.What other play were we running where he got all those carries?

145? Wow, that seems awful high. You didn't pull your number from Mavric's Imaginary Stats Used to Prove True2tra Wrong book did you?
I guess I'll have to fall on my own sword and say maybe he didn't do it as much as I would've liked. It seeme teams keyed on Abduallah constantly and there were many more opportunities for Tommy to keep it. Also, I'm not making this up, I can't remember where it came from, but there was information brought to light last season that the zone read play's were pre-determined.

I'll admit though, after all my preaching about people admitting when they're wrong around here, I'll practice what I preach. If Tommy had 145 carries last year, then RARELY EVER was a poor choice of words on my part. I should've said I'd have liked to see him make the reads and run with it when Abdullah was clearly the focus.

2014 Husker Stats

 

[True2tRA]

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

Here you go.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

Adjusted Line Yards - NU #11 - PSU #111Standard Down Line Yards per Carry - NU #24 - PSU #125

Pass Downs Line Yards per Carry - NU #21 - PSU #120

Opportunity Rate - NU #31 - PSU #124

Power Success Rate - NU #58 - PSU #101

Stuff Rate - NU #28 - PSU #125

Adjusted Sack Rate - NU #63 - PSU #101

Standard Downs Sack Rate - NU #91 - PSU #83

Passing Downs Sack Rate - NU #38 - PSU #121

Husker Average: #40; PSU: #112

Husker Run Blocking Average: #28; PSU: #117

Husker Sack Rate Average: #63: PSU: #101

So the numbers clearly show that NU's offensive line was MUCH better overall. The pass-blocking numbers were closer but NU still have a decided advantage.

And our run blocking was actually significantly better than I would imagine most would give us credit for.

Wow! Now our offensive line wasn't that bad either? Man, it really is ALL TOMMY'S FAULT! I mean, here's Kenny Bell, Ameer Abdullah, and the Wizard of OZ Tim Beck all at NU's disposal and TOMMY ARMSTRONG can't pull his head out of his a$$ long enough to move this offense along.

I guess I'm the only one who watched missed assignments, unfinished blocks, patty cake blocking, standing and spectating, getting overpowered, and even a guy getting blown over by the wind. Nope, the stats say it, NEBRASKA'S OFFENSIVE LINE IS CLEARLY NOT AN ISSUE.

 

[Mavric]

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

Here you go.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

Adjusted Line Yards - NU #11 - PSU #111Standard Down Line Yards per Carry - NU #24 - PSU #125

Pass Downs Line Yards per Carry - NU #21 - PSU #120

Opportunity Rate - NU #31 - PSU #124

Power Success Rate - NU #58 - PSU #101

Stuff Rate - NU #28 - PSU #125

Adjusted Sack Rate - NU #63 - PSU #101

Standard Downs Sack Rate - NU #91 - PSU #83

Passing Downs Sack Rate - NU #38 - PSU #121

Husker Average: #40; PSU: #112

Husker Run Blocking Average: #28; PSU: #117

Husker Sack Rate Average: #63: PSU: #101

So the numbers clearly show that NU's offensive line was MUCH better overall. The pass-blocking numbers were closer but NU still have a decided advantage.

And our run blocking was actually significantly better than I would imagine most would give us credit for.

Wow! Now our offensive line wasn't that bad either? Man, it really is ALL TOMMY'S FAULT! I mean, here's Kenny Bell, Ameer Abdullah, and the Wizard of OZ Tim Beck all at NU's disposal and TOMMY ARMSTRONG can't pull his head out of his a$$ long enough to move this offense along.

I guess I'm the only one who watched missed assignments, unfinished blocks, patty cake blocking, standing and spectating, getting overpowered, and even a guy getting blown over by the wind. Nope, the stats say it, NEBRASKA'S OFFENSIVE LINE IS CLEARLY NOT AN ISSUE.

What happened to admitting when you were wrong?

 

[True2tRA]

Somehow I doubt you watched a lot of Penn State games to be able to say that with much authority. I know I didn't.

If you have a better stat to compare them with, I'd love to see it. TA may have avoided sacks with his legs but Hackenburg may have thrown away more passes when he should have. Sacks is an imperfect stat for comparison but it gives you a pretty good idea.

Here you go.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

Adjusted Line Yards - NU #11 - PSU #111Standard Down Line Yards per Carry - NU #24 - PSU #125

Pass Downs Line Yards per Carry - NU #21 - PSU #120

Opportunity Rate - NU #31 - PSU #124

Power Success Rate - NU #58 - PSU #101

Stuff Rate - NU #28 - PSU #125

Adjusted Sack Rate - NU #63 - PSU #101

Standard Downs Sack Rate - NU #91 - PSU #83

Passing Downs Sack Rate - NU #38 - PSU #121

Husker Average: #40; PSU: #112

Husker Run Blocking Average: #28; PSU: #117

Husker Sack Rate Average: #63: PSU: #101

So the numbers clearly show that NU's offensive line was MUCH better overall. The pass-blocking numbers were closer but NU still have a decided advantage.

And our run blocking was actually significantly better than I would imagine most would give us credit for.

Wow! Now our offensive line wasn't that bad either? Man, it really is ALL TOMMY'S FAULT! I mean, here's Kenny Bell, Ameer Abdullah, and the Wizard of OZ Tim Beck all at NU's disposal and TOMMY ARMSTRONG can't pull his head out of his a$$ long enough to move this offense along.

I guess I'm the only one who watched missed assignments, unfinished blocks, patty cake blocking, standing and spectating, getting overpowered, and even a guy getting blown over by the wind. Nope, the stats say it, NEBRASKA'S OFFENSIVE LINE IS CLEARLY NOT AN ISSUE.

What happened to admitting when you were wrong?

You mean like I did above? Trouble with comprehension today?

If I felt I was wrong about the offensive line, I'd admit that too. Clearly you misse the part where I don't believe the offensive line was as good as your little statistics want to try to show. Maybe the sarcasm was the wrong route to go with you. i thought it'd be obvious, but it wasn't.

To make it simple. We disagree. I don't care what the stats say. Again, you've missed the part where I said we've built some pretty little statistics against some piss poor opponents. What happened when we played teams on our level?

Oh, that's right. It's the players fault.

Were'nt you the guy just the other day saying how talented this team is? So if we are so damn talented, and Beck an the offensive line was so great, then what's the issue? Just Tommy huh, that's truly your stance on it? The defense clearly sucked, but many times the offense was gong three and out at record pace, thta sure wasn't helping. So what gives? Your preaching on both sides of the argument.

 

[Mavric]

If you would like to have a rational discussion, I'd be happy to continue.